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Thread: Attack on Social Security by Illegals

  1. #1
    Member Mr. Lackawanna's Avatar
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    Attack on Social Security by Illegals

    Return of the Great Social Security Giveaway by Rep. Ron Paul


    Return of the Great Social Security Giveaway
    by Rep. Ron Paul, MD
    by Rep. Ron Paul, MD

    Last year around this time I wrote about a serious threat to Social
    Security that was moving ever closer – a threat so great that it
    could truly break the bank of our already dangerously fragile Social
    Security system. The threat is the ongoing "totalization"
    negotiations between the US and Mexican governments. An agreement on
    "totalization" would make hundreds of thousands of Mexican citizens
    eligible for American Social Security. Press reports just last month
    reminded us that these talks are continuing and will likely be
    completed this year.

    As I wrote last year, under such a "totalization" agreement, even if
    a Mexican citizen did not work in the United States long enough to
    qualify for Social Security, the number of years worked in Mexico
    would be added to bring up the total and thus make the Mexican
    worker eligible for cash transfers from the United States. To
    qualify for American Social Security, a Mexican citizen would need
    to work in the US as short as just 18 months!

    Totalization is nothing new. The first such agreements were made in
    the late 1970s between the United States and several foreign
    governments to help American citizens who were sent abroad by their
    companies. From there we have come, nearly 30 years later, to the
    point where an estimated 160,000 Mexican citizens would be eligible
    for US Social Security in the next five years.

    Ultimately, the bill for Mexicans working legally in the US could
    reach one billion dollars by 2050, when the estimated Mexican
    beneficiaries could reach 300,000. Worse still, an estimated five
    million Mexicans working illegally in the United States could be
    eligible for the program. According to press reports, a provision in
    the Social Security Act allows illegal immigrants to receive Social
    Security benefits if the United States and another country have a
    totalization agreement.

    Those in favor of sending US Social Security benefits to Mexican
    citizens argue that the crushing poverty in Mexico demands some form
    of US assistance to that country's aged.

    January 6, 2004
    Dr. Ron Paul is a Republican member of Congress from Texas.
    Ron Paul Archives



    The above article shows that the Liberals want to save the world by giving our social security funds to illegal Mexican workers. The Liberals feel that we should now be responsible for the "poor and old people in Mexico"

    To qualify for American Social Security, a illegal Mexican citizen would need
    to work in the United States just 18 months! How about that, a real US citizen will need to work 10 years to qualify for Social Security.

    With the additional financial drain on Social Security one wonders where the funds will come from to pay for this plan. Maybe the government will lower the benefits that will be paid out or the fund will just go bankrupt.

  2. #2
    Member colossus27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Lackawanna
    To qualify for American Social Security, a illegal Mexican citizen would need
    to work in the United States just 18 months! How about that, a real US citizen will need to work 10 years to qualify for Social Security.
    That's funny. Where's his outrage over how states like NY administer socialized medicine?
    "At a minimum, a head of state should have a head."- Vladimir Putin

  3. #3
    Member run4it's Avatar
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    "liberals" hmm?

    So these talks have been ongoing...and who has been in charge of both the legislative and executive branches of government for 6 years? Better get some more fingers to point.

    Lacky, I know that you like Ron Paul a lot...but you have to admit that a lot of his stuff is whacko. Not that I'm saying this is totally incorrect, but have you read any other information or viewpoints about this subject?
    But your being a dick
    ~Wnyresident

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    Member Mr. Lackawanna's Avatar
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    Commenting on what was on TV

    Quote Originally Posted by run4it
    "liberals" hmm?

    So these talks have been ongoing...and who has been in charge of both the legislative and executive branches of government for 6 years? Better get some more fingers to point.

    Lacky, I know that you like Ron Paul a lot...but you have to admit that a lot of his stuff is whacko. Not that I'm saying this is totally incorrect, but have you read any other information or viewpoints about this subject?

    No. Ron Paul was the only information I looked at. I just need some proof that I was not making this story up. What brought my attention to this subject. It was a report on TV a cable news station (not Fox) last night. It was also reported that the Mexican government is giving GPS units to the illegal Mexicans entering the Unites States so they wound not get lost while trying to sneak into the United States.

    A Liberal can be any Democratic or Republican politician who likes to transfer the additional wealth from those that earned it to those that haven't earned it.

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    Member run4it's Avatar
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    I'd greatly hesitate to take anything Ron Paul says as "proof", other than proof of lunacy.

    In any case, let's be honest here for a minute:
    No one has suggested that illegal immigrants should get social security. What current law allows is that any former illegal immigrant who later becomes a legal citizen gets credit for social security taxes paid while under illegal status. Once again, the worker must gain legal status before anything is paid out. So "giving social security benefits to illegals" is misleading, if not false.

    By the way, did you know that illegals contribute about $7Billion per year in social security taxes? (remember, those who remain illegal never get this back).

    As for GPS systems for illegal immigrants: It's not the Mexican Government. It's the government of one Mexican state. I've seen estimates of up to 2000 deaths a year of illegals trying to cross the desert. The GPS is for them to activiate if they are stranded and dying, that's it. It may be misguided, and while you may not have too much sympathy for illegal immigrants, there at least is a good intention behind it (that intention being simply saving lives). Oh, and yes, they would be deported once they were found...
    But your being a dick
    ~Wnyresident

  6. #6
    Member Mr. Lackawanna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by run4it
    I'd greatly hesitate to take anything Ron Paul says as "proof", other than proof of lunacy.

    In any case, let's be honest here for a minute:
    No one has suggested that illegal immigrants should get social security. What current law allows is that any former illegal immigrant who later becomes a legal citizen gets credit for social security taxes paid while under illegal status. Once again, the worker must gain legal status before anything is paid out. So "giving social security benefits to illegals" is misleading, if not false.

    By the way, did you know that illegals contribute about $7Billion per year in social security taxes? (remember, those who remain illegal never get this back).

    As for GPS systems for illegal immigrants: It's not the Mexican Government. It's the government of one Mexican state. I've seen estimates of up to 2000 deaths a year of illegals trying to cross the desert. The GPS is for them to activiate if they are stranded and dying, that's it. It may be misguided, and while you may not have too much sympathy for illegal immigrants, there at least is a good intention behind it (that intention being simply saving lives). Oh, and yes, they would be deported once they were found...




    In June, 2004, President Bush's Social Security Administration negotiated a deal with Mexico named "Totalization", to allow Mexicans who work for a period of time (legally or illegally) in the United States to collect money from the U.S. Social Security system when they retire in Mexico.

    So much that they must be legal to collect Social Security.


    Why should the illegals Mexicans get there monies back. They were lying when they applied for a social security card.

    Lets not nitpick over a Mexican Sate Government or the Central Government of Mexico. It's still an exodus of Mexicans illegals to to the United States. It all depends on what you think the GPSS are used for. You have your spin and I have mine. I think the GPS units are used to make sure the illegal Mexicans don't come back to Mexico.

  7. #7
    Member run4it's Avatar
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    From the Social Security Administration:

    This is not the case. The agreements, moreover, do not change the basic coverage provisions of the participating countries' Social Security laws--such as those that define covered earnings or work

    So, no...unless the person is recognized as a legal worker in the U.S., they will never be elegible for social security benefits.

    What this agreement does is protect workers from either country working in the other from having to pay social security taxes in both their home and resident country (dual taxation). While there is room for abuse (as there is in almost any system) the fact that the worker HAS TO BE LEGAL does not change.

    And not all GPS systems provide maps, Lacky. My phone has one...all it does is locate me (or my phone actually) should I be reported lost. That's pretty much what the state is giving to those who are crossing the border.
    But your being a dick
    ~Wnyresident

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    Member run4it's Avatar
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    By the way, Paul's letter notes that this could cost $1billion by 2050. Considering that we're now pulling in $7billion per year in social security taxes from illegals (which will undoubtedly go up with minimum wage increasing), I'd say that, even under Paul's worst estimate, the (conservatively) $344billion we'll bring in will be well worth the $1billion we'll pay out...
    But your being a dick
    ~Wnyresident

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    Member WestSideJohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Lackawanna



    In June, 2004, President Bush's Social Security Administration negotiated a deal with Mexico named "Totalization", to allow Mexicans who work for a period of time (legally or illegally) in the United States to collect money from the U.S. Social Security system when they retire in Mexico.
    And you blame "the Liberals?"

    Treachery made a monster out of me

  10. #10
    Member run4it's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WestSideJohn
    And you blame "the Liberals?"
    He already explained that. Apparently, the President is a liberal...
    But your being a dick
    ~Wnyresident

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    Those in favor of allowing corrupt and imprisoned congressional members to gain pensions paid for by the tax payer, say Aye.



    The problem with social security isn't the Liberals subsidizing of mexican workers but OUR HUGE aging population and our extremely low tax rate. In comparison the mexican migrants that do reap the benefits are only a drop in the bucket to the flood of the aging class and Americans already on assistence. The blame should be put on the Republicans for refusing to raise taxes in congress over the last 12 years to lower the hurt on the Social Security system. As a result there is already forecasts from economists that our Children will be feeling the hurt from higher taxes to take care for all the retirees.

    The Liberals feel that we should now be responsible for the "poor and old people in Mexico"

    I don't think so. I think the Liberals are looking after the best interest of the nation. Considering they have only really been in congressional power for about 8 hours, I don't think anyone should really be judging what they are responsible for. We haven't even seen what they will put foreword on the first 100 hours yet!
    However, they are looking like they are looking after the best interest of the nation. They've made congress transparent by putting foreword a bill to drastically lower the the power of lobbeying and gifts that can be recieved. How long have the Republicans been riding the Lobby Gravy Train?
    Looks like they are trying to put something together to raise minimum wage to 7.50 an hour which would be excellent for the working poor.


    To qualify for American Social Security, a illegal Mexican citizen would need
    to work in the United States just 18 months! How about that, a real US citizen will need to work 10 years to qualify for Social Security.


    Where do you get this from? Not that it matters, I think it's an excellent Idea! It forces the Illegals to PAY INTO THE SYSTEM. Which means that Jose and Juan will be supporting your Mommy or yourself who is on medicaid. What you pay into the system isn't what you reap Lack. When you pay into social security you're paying for everyone who is already collecting their SS cheques.


    With the additional financial drain on Social Security one wonders where the funds will come from to pay for this plan.

    Yea, the Drain on the system from the 70+ Million Americans of the Baby Boom who are retiring in the next 10-15 years and collecting SS from the system.

    http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/...cb01cn184.html
    http://www.census.gov/prod/2003pubs/p20-546.pdf


    Maybe the government will lower the benefits that will be paid out or the fund will just go bankrupt.

    OR! They can increase immigration into this country to support the aging population.

  12. #12
    Member Mr. Lackawanna's Avatar
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    As heard on Cable news tonight (not Fox) the southern states that border Mexico are financially feeling the pinch for supporting the illegal Aliens.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Lackawanna
    As heard on Cable news tonight (not Fox) the southern states that border Mexico are financially feeling the pinch for supporting the illegal Aliens.

    Ya... I'd like to take your word for it... but there is SO many variables in the equation for the impact of illegal immigrants that it's hard to really tell whether it is beneficial or parasitic.

    What I can tell you for sure though is that the 70 million baby boomers retiring has a far greater impact on the social security burden then 6 million WORKING illegals will ever have.

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    Member tomac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Lackawanna
    A Liberal can be any Democratic or Republican politician who likes to transfer the additional wealth from those that earned it to those that haven't earned it.
    Then you must consider W(orthless) and his NeoCon buddies to be Liberals!
    They want to transfer money from the wallets of those who earned it (me) to those that didn't (the CEOs and FEOs of the largest corporations).
    This country will be better off when that little Putz is History.


    Think you can trust the government?
    Ask an Indian!

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    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goodolefriend
    Ya... I'd like to take your word for it... but there is SO many variables in the equation for the impact of illegal immigrants that it's hard to really tell whether it is beneficial or parasitic.

    What I can tell you for sure though is that the 70 million baby boomers retiring has a far greater impact on the social security burden then 6 million WORKING illegals will ever have.
    Maybe not.

    The 6 million young US citizens adults of the 70 million retirees would be working versus the immigrants from mexico.

    People tend to forget that the United States citizens should always come first.

    Wouldn't anyone wanting to help another country at the cost of US citizens be considered a traitor?

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