Tops Market's files for Bankruptcy

[gorja]

its coming idiot.. wake up

If you listen to Burt Flickinger, he doesn't seem to be as positive as you are.

http://www.wben.com/media/audio-chan...ops-bankruptcy

[grump]

Well, it’s official. Tops files for bankruptcy.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

Well, it’s official. Tops files for bankruptcy.

More specifically Chapter 11 - reorganization.

[WNYresident]

Competition is tough. Specially when you have larger companies with deep pockets coming into an area. Physically or by way of the internet.

My opinion is I don't see how Tops will be able to grow market share/revenue to offset the cost of the debt. Specially with stores that carry the burden of high property taxes. Why would a company want to expand in Erie County as example when they could grow their company just about any where else in the USA for less.

Someone mentioned Wegman's sells food not groceries. Good observation. I think Wegman's is expensive compared to other stores but still go.

I was wondering if a "refill" system would benefit a grocery store. Automatic delivery of milk, eggs, bread, lunch meat and/or house hold goods you use each month/week

Seems like a good idea on the surface but you lose the impulse purchases if people went to the store for those items. Very rarely do I walk out of a grocery store with just milk or a loaf of bread.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

Competition is tough. Especially when you have larger companies with deep pockets coming into an area. Physically or by way of the internet.

My opinion is I don't see how Tops will be able to grow market share/revenue to offset the cost of the debt. Especially with stores that carry the burden of high property taxes. Why would a company want to expand in Erie County as example when they could grow their company just about any where else in the USA for less.

Tops needed to hit multiple home runs for their plan to pay off the debt by growth. It's possible they have been looking at C11 for a long time and from the start. If you think about it...it makes sense.

As for competition, there are areas where you will face major competition. Just looking at WNY, that's the 1st, 2nd and 3rd ring burbs. Where you won't find competition are in the urban core and rural areas. I think Tops, or any other well run store without massive debt, could do well here. I think growing in the core and rural areas have always been the focus...they just didn't have the money to do it.

Someone mentioned Wegman's sells food not groceries. Good observation. I think Wegman's is expensive compared to other stores but still go.

Prepaired foods is really where Wegmans is way ahead of the curve. But this does not work in areas that tops should focus on. Those people don't have money to burn for the sake of time savings.

I was wondering if a "refill" system would benefit a grocery store. Automatic delivery of milk, eggs, bread, lunch meat and/or house hold goods you use each month/week

Ya. Amazon is already there.

[grump]

Leftie, maybe they were planning it from day 1 but I question it. I wonder just because the interest rate on their debt was so high compared to prevailing rates. Why wouldn’t one file sooner to try and restructure more of the debt at lower rates. The interest cost was killing them. But who knows except those on the inside.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

Leftie, maybe they were planning it from day 1 but I question it. I wonder just because the interest rate on their debt was so high compared to prevailing rates. Why wouldn’t one file sooner to try and restructure more of the debt at lower rates. The interest cost was killing them. But who knows except those on the inside.

Good points. The only thing I can think of is they made a bad deal so that they could make the deal.

It's going to be an interesting process to watch unfold.

[jennifer7]

[QUOTE=leftWNYbecauseofBS;1783925]Tops needed to hit multiple home runs for their plan to pay off the debt by growth. It's possible they have been looking at C11 for a long time and from the start. If you think about it...it makes sense.

As for competition, there are areas where you will face major competition. Just looking at WNY, that's the 1st, 2nd and 3rd ring burbs. Where you won't find competition are in the urban core and rural areas. I think Tops, or any other well run store without massive debt, could do well here. I think growing in the core and rural areas have always been the focus...they just didn't have the money to do it.



Prepaired foods is really where Wegmans is way ahead of the curve. But this does not work in areas that tops should focus on. Those people don't have money to burn for the sake of time savings.


Theirs hardley any competition and no choice in WNY for anything anymore and most markets have several grocery store chains to choose from

[grump]

Good points. The only thing I can think of is they made a bad deal so that they could make the deal.

It's going to be an interesting process to watch unfold.

That it will be. I have to say I’m less than optimistic ‘though I can’t say just why. I’m not a big Tops fan but it’s a lot of jobs at stake.

[WNYresident]

You have to be kidding me.

BUFFALO, N.Y. — Even while filing for bankruptcy, Tops Markets remained optimistic about the grocery chain's future.

“When we see these preliminary reports of financial difficulties, the first thing that comes to mind is whether or not these stores are going to close. We are being told at this point that that is not the case or it is going to be very minimal," state Senator Tim Kennedy, D-Buffalo, said.

The chain said business remains steady but it's facing issues with debt and so it's using the process as a chance to restructure. State legislators, for now, said they’re taking the corporation at its word.

http://spectrumlocalnews.com/nys/buf...kets-if-needed


If I owned a supermarket that competed with tops I would sue not to allow this to happen.

[grump]

It’s not as simple as just walking away from a pile of debt. The creditors are going to watch this carefully. I guess under some circumstances they can ask the court to liquidate the business. I read something about Toys R Us facing that prospect and they’re closing 200 more stores. I found it troubling that Tops had to arrange financing to cover its operations or it would’ve faced a $19 million cash deficit in a month. If they can’t fund day to day operations that sounds like trouble. And did I read that company owned stores average $250k a week in sales. Sounds damned light to me. The company has to talk a confident game or vendors will dry up but yikes.

[WNYresident]

You have to be kidding me.




http://spectrumlocalnews.com/nys/buf...kets-if-needed


If I owned a supermarket that competed with tops I would sue not to allow this to happen.

Koch group warns cities against 'corporate welfare' for Amazon


A Koch-backed group started an ad campaign Wednesday aimed at dissuading local governments from lavishing Amazon with taxpayer-funded benefits to win the company’s second headquarters.

Generation Opportunity, a group within the Koch network that engages with millennials, rolled out a video bashing “corporate welfare” for Amazon, to run on social media in the 19 U.S. localities that are finalists for the headquarters.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/ko...rticle/2649574

[steven]

It doesnt seeem like Top's has had a new business model in forever. The only thing keeping its grants st store open is the gas station, Wegmans gets all the business in this area of the west side.

Shopping in tops reminds me of going to Bell's or super Duper in the 70's. Wegamns is an entirely different world, it is always well stocked and bright, the people are friendly, and they have the little extras like leaving umbrellas out when it rains for people to use to get to their cars.

Wegmans was also the first in the area to jump on the grocery home delivery service. Tops just started offering it last month.

I cant speak for all Tops markets but the one over here (grant street) is a train wreck. I went in once after work at 10 PM and they had no people working the cash registers. I saw at least two customers just walk out because they had full carts and didnt want to try to check out on this tiny self check out things.

Just last week I went in and there were no carts available despite the store being empty and it being the middle of the day. I walked up to a male and female employee and told them this and also told them customers where just walking out the door. The guy sent someone outside to round up the carts but the women looked at me like I was bothering her.

Bad customer service, late to the delivery game, outdated lay out, its a perfect storm of incompetence.

I still walk in to tops but the reason is I can get in and out fast because its always empty.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

It doesnt seeem like Top's has had a new business model in forever. The only thing keeping its grants st store open is the gas station, Wegmans gets all the business in this area of the west side.

Shopping in tops reminds me of going to Bell's or super Duper in the 70's. Wegamns is an entirely different world, it is always well stocked and bright, the people are friendly, and they have the little extras like leaving umbrellas out when it rains for people to use to get to their cars.

Wegmans was also the first in the area to jump on the grocery home delivery service. Tops just started offering it last month.

I cant speak for all Tops markets but the one over here (grant street) is a train wreck. I went in once after work at 10 PM and they had no people working the cash registers. I saw at least two customers just walk out because they had full carts and didnt want to try to check out on this tiny self check out things.

Just last week I went in and there were no carts available despite the store being empty and it being the middle of the day. I walked up to a male and female employee and told them this and also told them customers where just walking out the door. The guy sent someone outside to round up the carts but the women looked at me like I was bothering her.

Bad customer service, late to the delivery game, outdated lay out, its a perfect storm of incompetence.

I still walk in to tops but the reason is I can get in and out fast because its always empty.

I have been following this online and have read over and over again that Tops employees are treated like crap. Also read a couple of times they have to deal with more crap from crappy shoppers. Not a good mix.

I think what Tops should do is follow the Trader Joes model. Not the hippie food but instead of doing lots of high quality prepaired food they should offer lots of high quality packaged food.

An example is if you go into Trader Joes they have an awesome selection of frozen fish. Good quality frozen fish. Not in a box and processed with butter and breading but good quality tuna, salmon and the like. You don't need a fish monger for this. You don't need a chef. But you make a nice profit. Also safe from spoiling.

[cheekman]

If you listen to Burt Flickinger, he doesn't seem to be as positive as you are.

http://www.wben.com/media/audio-chan...ops-bankruptcy

I don't listen to that ass. Another one that everyone loves in this area. I guess he was wrong G