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Thread: Clarence creates new zoning district

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    Member gorja's Avatar
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    Clarence creates new zoning district

    Town prepares for Eastern Hills’ future with creation of new zoning district


    by ETHAN POWERS
    Editor

    The Clarence Town Board, in preparation for a future redevelopment of the Eastern Hills Mall site, amended the town code at its Jan. 17 meeting to create a new zoning class.

    Chapter 229 of the town code’s zoning section now includes a “lifestyle center district” that Supervisor Patrick Casilio says allows for the creation of a “city within a town.”

    The new zoning class will facilitate and encourage walkability, alternative transportation methods, green energy use and, above all, an abundance of mixed-use properties that will create independent neighborhoods in which residents will be able to both live and work.

    “It’s important, based on the internet shopping phenomenon and the decline of the big-box center, that we take advantage of the redevelopment of our large-tract mall spaces,” said Jim Callahan, director of community development for the town.

    The town hired Sean Hopkins of Hopkins Sorgi & Romanowski PLLC, a real estate acquisition firm, to work with Clarence’s Planning Department to develop the language that would identify the new zoning district.

    “The Town of Clarence does have some older and outdated malls, strip plazas, that I think everyone would like to see get redeveloped in the future,” said Hopkins. “The town, to its credit, has decided to tackle that issue proactively.”

    In encouraging mixed-use developments that feature significant commercial space, the new district calls for any proposed project in the district to include at least 20 percent residential space, with a maximum of 40 percent. Uses that are prohibited for proposed projects include warehouses; self-storage units; dog kennels; detached residential units, including single family homes; and sexually oriented businesses.

    For the rest of the article -
    http://www.clarencebee.com/news/2018...th_creati.html





    Georgia L Schlager

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    The footprint of Eastern Hills is large, I guess. But “a city within a town”? Really? Have they amended their zoning map to identify sites or is it just language in a code? Again with the “walkabilty”and “alternative transportation methods”. Who is going to walk there and what alternative transportation method they gonna use? Stumbling around in the dark.

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    Quote Originally Posted by grump View Post
    ...“alternative transportation methods”...
    lol. No doubt. What does that mean? Really. "Alternative" to what? The use of an ambiguous phrase like that (in the absence of any sort of guidance) suggests to me nothing more than trying to make something sound good.

    Here are some of which I thought...

    Bicycle
    Walk
    Skateboard
    Hoverboard
    Horseback
    Rickshaw
    Experimental Personal Aircraft
    Camelback
    Telekinesis

    Anyone else have options?

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    Quote Originally Posted by grump View Post
    The footprint of Eastern Hills is large, I guess. But “a city within a town”? Really? Have they amended their zoning map to identify sites or is it just language in a code? Again with the “walkabilty”and “alternative transportation methods”. Who is going to walk there and what alternative transportation method they gonna use? Stumbling around in the dark.
    Let me translate for you Grump:

    a city within a town = is a property that contains most everything someone would need to live, work and play in very close proximity.

    walkabilty = is the ability to walk from your apartment, condo or townhouse to places to eat, drink, shop or even possibly work.

    alternative transportation methods = not building a sea of parking lots anticipating that everyone at the site is going to drive, by themselves. This can mean things like designated Ride Share drop off and pick up points like at the airport to bus stops for public transportation.


    The idea is not 'who is going to walk there' but rather if you live there you walk rather than drive. My assumption they are making on the demographics are people who purchased large homes in East Amherst and Clarence in the 80s and early 90s are looking to downsize but remain in the area. So you create a 'all-in-one' type location for those who can afford it. And there are plenty I assume.

    I also think they are trying to create an environment similar to the Village (that you love) or Elmwood. A place that becomes a destination on its own and as a whole rather than a specific part. For example, instead of saying let's go to dinner at [restaurant name] and then [activity at a different location] after...how about we go to Eastern Hills and figure things out once we get there.

    Lastly, there is a large number of people like me who grew up in Clarence, Lancaster or East Amherst that most likely won't have a connection to the Village. They visit and I think this type of destination with a hotel is a prime option than the 'thruway dumps' that currrently service this part of the region or having to go pretty far into Amherst or the City for something nice.


    A good example of what I think they are going for is Santana Row in San Jose - http://www.santanarow.com/

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    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    Chapter 229 of the town code’s zoning section now includes a “lifestyle center district” that Supervisor Patrick Casilio says allows for the creation of a “city within a town.”
    Wouldn't people just move to "the city" (Buffalo) if that's how they are looking at it?

    Or is it basically going to be a senior center for younger people's parents who know it's time to downsize?

    Will this new destination have subsidized apartments in the mix?

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    Quote Originally Posted by WNYresident View Post
    Wouldn't people just move to "the city" (Buffalo) if that's how they are looking at it?
    No. There are people who don't want to live in the COB for a multitude of reasons. There are also massive differenced between a brand new lifestyle center and apartments off Elmwood that are 100 years old.

    Quote Originally Posted by WNYresident View Post
    Or is it basically going to be a senior center for younger people's parents who know it's time to downsize?
    They will for sure be a main demographic. Would also be pretty nice for DINKs who want to live in Clarence or people who like living small.

    Lifestyle centers are 'fake' urban living for cities that don't have great or extensive 'real' urban living options. Buffalo is one of these places.

    Quote Originally Posted by WNYresident View Post
    Will this new destination have subsidized apartments in the mix?
    Good question. Doubtful.

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    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    This is Clarence. I would like to read Alan Bedenko's opinion on this. He is a supporter of immigration.

    Wouldn't Clarence set a fine example for others to follow if the town had a refugee assimilation area at the "City within a town"?

    In encouraging mixed-use developments that feature significant commercial space, the new district calls for any proposed project in the district to include at least 20 percent residential space, with a maximum of 40 percent. Uses that are prohibited for proposed projects include warehouses; self-storage units; dog kennels; detached residential units, including single family homes; and sexually oriented businesses.

    If 40 percent of the project is apartments I think 50% of that should be targeted for refugees and people who recently immigrated to Erie County.

    There would be a job opportunities for those individuals at the businesses that lease the commercial space.

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    Leftie, you still don’t get it, I guess. I have nothing against the Village. If people want to live there God bless them. Someone has to, I suppose. My gripe is with the phony white Democrat liberals like Kulpa, Bucki, Marconi and that crowd who hide their obvious racism behind terms like “walkable communities”. I couldn’t agree with you more that these are fake communities. Surround your new “community” with whatever you like; it’s still gonna be the corner of Main and Transit. As for the antic claims of the local shoe shine rag that these things mimic the growth in the city the regular updates from the Bureau of the Census prove that this growth exists exclusively in the eyes of the local shoe shine rag & its fake news division.

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    Member gorja's Avatar
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    In the January 24th Bee article, the Clarence leaders indicated that they may be modeling this effort after Crocker Park or Easton Town Center both in Ohio which are similar to Leftie's San Jose Santana Row

    http://www.crockerpark.com/
    https://eastontowncenter.com/

    Georgia L Schlager

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    Quote Originally Posted by leftWNYbecauseofBS View Post
    Let me translate for you Grump:

    a city within a town = is a property that contains most everything someone would need to live, work and play in very close proximity.

    walkabilty = is the ability to walk from your apartment, condo or townhouse to places to eat, drink, shop or even possibly work.

    alternative transportation methods = not building a sea of parking lots anticipating that everyone at the site is going to drive, by themselves. This can mean things like designated Ride Share drop off and pick up points like at the airport to bus stops for public transportation.


    The idea is not 'who is going to walk there' but rather if you live there you walk rather than drive. My assumption they are making on the demographics are people who purchased large homes in East Amherst and Clarence in the 80s and early 90s are looking to downsize but remain in the area. So you create a 'all-in-one' type location for those who can afford it. And there are plenty I assume.

    I also think they are trying to create an environment similar to the Village (that you love) or Elmwood. A place that becomes a destination on its own and as a whole rather than a specific part. For example, instead of saying let's go to dinner at [restaurant name] and then [activity at a different location] after...how about we go to Eastern Hills and figure things out once we get there.

    Lastly, there is a large number of people like me who grew up in Clarence, Lancaster or East Amherst that most likely won't have a connection to the Village. They visit and I think this type of destination with a hotel is a prime option than the 'thruway dumps' that currrently service this part of the region or having to go pretty far into Amherst or the City for something nice.


    A good example of what I think they are going for is Santana Row in San Jose - http://www.santanarow.com/
    Well, I guess Buffalo won’t qualify. If you live downtown you have to go miles to find a decent grocery store. And given the recent news about Tops I wouldn’t be holding my breath for the long ago announced but never built Tops downtown. There are already bus stops there so we can cross that novel alternative transportation mode off the list. Ride Share drop off and pick up points? That anything like a cab stand? I like fancy terms that make something old sound like it’s a new concept. My assumption is that they know Eastern Hills is going in the dumper and they don’t know what to do so they’re grasping. Thank God there won’t be dog kennels, at least. And they’ll still get their sexually oriented stuff in other towns where they’re not recognized by their neighbors! Is this a zoning overlay zone or are parts of the town going to be rezoned with this designation? Wondering if there are amendments made or proposed to the zoning map.

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    Quote Originally Posted by grump View Post
    Well, I guess Buffalo won’t qualify. If you live downtown you have to go miles to find a decent grocery store. And given the recent news about Tops I wouldn’t be holding my breath for the long ago announced but never built Tops downtown.
    I don't think the Tops deal is a dire as some want to make it. It's bad but not insurmountable. I think it's actually a long-term play by management going back to 2013.

    I think the most likely situation for downtown is an Orchard Fresh rather than a Tops. I could see Tops going with this concept downtown and smaller stores like the one on Seneca in South Buffalo and in a place like this. Essentially switch the focus from the isels to the walls. Which is the trend in stores these days to survive big box discounts and delivery options.

    Quote Originally Posted by grump View Post
    There are already bus stops there so we can cross that novel alternative transportation mode off the list. Ride Share drop off and pick up points? That anything like a cab stand? I like fancy terms that make something old sound like it’s a new concept.
    The mall is serviced by the 48 and 66 currently. I think they are looking for expansion. Eg. 49 and 47. Your cab stand comment is funny. You're right it's similar with the major difference of cabs not really existing like that anymore. Especially out in the suburbs.

    Quote Originally Posted by grump View Post
    My assumption is that they know Eastern Hills is going in the dumper and they don’t know what to do so they’re grasping. Thank God there won’t be dog kennels, at least. And they’ll still get their sexually oriented stuff in other towns where they’re not recognized by their neighbors! Is this a zoning overlay zone or are parts of the town going to be rezoned with this designation? Wondering if there are amendments made or proposed to the zoning map.
    Going in? It's already there. The only thing of value EH has going for it right now is its location.

    Look, I know things in Buffalo happen about 20 years after they happen in other places and this concept seems strange to you. But it's really just a normal evolution.

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    My older son went to Eastern Hills last week for the first time in at least 6 years. He’d lived out of town and been on active duty for a few years. He was surprised by the state of the place to say the least. I understand what the town is trying to do. I wonder whether this is best way to proceed. Land use professionals have “mixed use” on the brain right now. It’s as if “mixed use” has some talismanic power to solve just about any type of land use issue. I think trying to turn that spot into 20%-40% residential is a stretch. I wonder if they have some research to support this number in that location. But I could be wrong, it’s happened before.

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    Quote Originally Posted by grump View Post
    My older son went to Eastern Hills last week for the first time in at least 6 years. He’d lived out of town and been on active duty for a few years. He was surprised by the state of the place to say the least. I understand what the town is trying to do. I wonder whether this is best way to proceed. Land use professionals have “mixed use” on the brain right now. It’s as if “mixed use” has some talismanic power to solve just about any type of land use issue. I think trying to turn that spot into 20%-40% residential is a stretch. I wonder if they have some research to support this number in that location. But I could be wrong, it’s happened before.
    Talk is cheap, Who's dumb enough to risk their own money (100's of millions) ? Then you can also invest outside WNY in all the booming & growing markets
    The developers will be looking for lots & lots of public money

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    Quote Originally Posted by jennifer7 View Post
    Talk is cheap, Who's dumb enough to risk their own money (100's of millions) ? Then you can also invest outside WNY in all the booming & growing markets
    The developers will be looking for lots & lots of public money
    Still can't find any suckers to invest in Central Terminal for 40 Years and now One Seneca Tower has the same faith, Even Douglas who's almost 80 years old has a limit to what he's willing to risk and he won't even touch the 38 Floor Tower section and Pegula knew better and moved out as fast as he could

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    Quote Originally Posted by grump View Post
    My older son went to Eastern Hills last week for the first time in at least 6 years. He’d lived out of town and been on active duty for a few years. He was surprised by the state of the place to say the least. I understand what the town is trying to do. I wonder whether this is best way to proceed. Land use professionals have “mixed use” on the brain right now. It’s as if “mixed use” has some talismanic power to solve just about any type of land use issue. I think trying to turn that spot into 20%-40% residential is a stretch. I wonder if they have some research to support this number in that location. But I could be wrong, it’s happened before.
    You can see it everywhere that WNY Populations loss's are worst then what stats are showing.

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