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Thread: Health Care Reform

  1. #1
    Member ryan's Avatar
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    Health Care Reform

    For those of you who disagree with what Paladino said:
    Brian, you have a dilemma. Those overwhelming progressive liberal views that you suppressed in the past have now combined with an ego, arrogance and indifference that has outgrown our community and blossomed into an unacceptable conflict with the views of your moderate working class constituency.

    On behalf of the working men and women of Western New York, we warn you that the tax, social and business burdens of the democrat sponsored Health Care Bill in its present form, are overwhelmingly at odds with the best interests of the people you represent. If you vote for it we will vehemently oppose your re-election. Your infatuation with Nancy Pelosi, as with Buffalo Mayor Byron Brown, is off the reservation. You should consider serving the interests of those who you represent.
    Are you saying that you do agree with the current health care bill?

    If so, why shouldn't high risk people have to pay more for health insurance?

    High risk drivers pay more for car insurance.
    Expensive homes cost more for homeowner's insurance.
    Rental insurance costs vary depending on the amount of stuff you own.
    Life Insurance rates vary depending on the policy type and age.

    Why is this any different for health insurance?

    This leads to my second point, why should I be 'forced' to purchase health insurance? I'm a relatively healthy person and could probably get by without health insurance.

    If you view insurance as an investment, I could probably get a higher return on investing putting my money somewhere else. Why should I have to subsidize what ends up being a very poor investment insuring high risk individuals?

    I'd like to hear everyone's opinion on the subject, but please refrain from name calling, thanks.

    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=124471919
    Someone who can't balance a budget probably shouldn't be in a position to spend someone else's money.

  2. #2
    Member Mindcrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryan View Post
    ...High risk drivers pay more for car insurance.
    Expensive homes cost more for homeowner's insurance.
    Rental insurance costs vary depending on the amount of stuff you own.
    Life Insurance rates vary depending on the policy type and age.

    Why is this any different for health insurance?...
    Well, driving, owning a home or renting something are not essential facets of life. Getting a kidney transplant or chemotherapy is.

    The way the system has degenerated in the last 20 years makes simply prolonging your own life a luxury. There are tens of millions of Americans who just want to live longer. They're not asking for a mansion and a yacht. They're not even looking for a free handout. We're willing to pay for health care. But it's simply become unaffordable to keep yourself alive. That's wrong.
    Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. No one is entitled to their own facts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mindcrime View Post
    Well, driving, owning a home or renting something are not essential facets of life. Getting a kidney transplant or chemotherapy is.

    The way the system has degenerated in the last 20 years makes simply prolonging your own life a luxury. There are tens of millions of Americans who just want to live longer. They're not asking for a mansion and a yacht. They're not even looking for a free handout. We're willing to pay for health care. But it's simply become unaffordable to keep yourself alive. That's wrong.
    But here's the kicker, only 1 in 15 Americans don't have HI, however everyone legal or illegal has access to HC through any and every ER. However, 1 in 6 Americans, 1 in 5 American Children, go to sleep hungry every night.

    Why is the left pushing so HARD to spend $200 Billion a year but skips over a big part of why health care is so $$$, basic proper food needs??

    Additionally, all three bills are a joke and do very little to address costs! I mean look at the state who's HI laws are closest to the bills, MASS, they have the highest HI/HC costs in the nation! That's were these bills will put us!
    "I know you guys enjoy reading my stuff because it all makes sense. "

    Dumbest post ever! Thanks for the laugh PO!

  4. #4
    Member NBuffaloResident's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougles View Post
    But here's the kicker, only 1 in 15 Americans don't have HI, however everyone legal or illegal has access to HC through any and every ER. However, 1 in 6 Americans, 1 in 5 American Children, go to sleep hungry every night.

    Why is the left pushing so HARD to spend $200 Billion a year but skips over a big part of why health care is so $$$, basic proper food needs??

    Additionally, all three bills are a joke and do very little to address costs! I mean look at the state who's HI laws are closest to the bills, MASS, they have the highest HI/HC costs in the nation! That's were these bills will put us!
    I think your Massachusetts statistics are a bit off... Massachussets is far eclisped by New York, New Jersey, Florida, North Carolina, and California. (http://www.cms.hhs.gov/NationalHealt...ads/res-us.pdf) and (http://www.statehealthfacts.org/comp...?ind=261&cat=5)

    Of course, that's as of 2004. I couldn't find any more recent numbers detailing personal health care costs.
    Last edited by NBuffaloResident; March 9th, 2010 at 09:39 AM.
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    Member run4it's Avatar
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    More like 1 in 10 Doogie (300 mil people, at least 30 mil uninsured). And there's another 50 mil or so you'd rather take OFF the rolls by ending Medicaid.

    But 1 in 10 (or even 1 in 15) is so much easier to say than 30 million people, isn't it?

    Actually, I dont' care how easy or difficult it is to say. The only thing it is is unacceptable.

    And you know that emergency care (which means a bandaid and on the sidewalk as soon as possible) is absolutely no substitute for ongoing proactive care. You also know that uninsured care, especially emergency, is the leading cause of bankruptcy in our country. You know that emergency care is far more expensive. There's way number one that increased coverage lowers costs. (I'm pretty sure you could figure out at least a dozen other ways this bill would lower costs if you were at all interested in doing anything other than scoring talking points) We've already discussed the billions of dollars that would magically reappear in our economy by cutting out those bankruptcies.

    As for you, Ryan...didn't you say you're in the military? Your beginning screed rings a little hollow considering you currently take part in a government administered health care plan.
    But your being a dick
    ~Wnyresident

  6. #6
    Member NBuffaloResident's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by run4it View Post
    ...clip...
    As for you, Ryan...didn't you say you're in the military? Your beginning screed rings a little hollow considering you currently take part in a government administered health care plan.
    And 100% free for him, at that. And 100% subsidized by tax payers. In fact, Bill Krystol actually stated it's the best health care system in the world. Just the regular Americans don't deserve it.

    So, let's see: The best health care system in the world, 100% administered by Government Employees (From Payor to Provider), 100% subsidized.

    But, somehow, this system shouldn't work. But, yet, it does. And works well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by run4it View Post
    More like 1 in 10 Doogie (300 mil people, at least 30 mil uninsured). And there's another 50 mil or so you'd rather take OFF the rolls by ending Medicaid.

    But 1 in 10 (or even 1 in 15) is so much easier to say than 30 million people, isn't it?

    Actually, I dont' care how easy or difficult it is to say. The only thing it is is unacceptable.
    The number is actually 47 MIllion, of which about 15 to 17 Million are hear illegally and can't buy HI, so were down to about 30 Million. Of that 30 million, over 10 million make $60K a year and don't buy HI because it costs to much, infact about 1.2 million of that number are NYS residents, of which a study showed due to the high mandates in NYS (which add 42% to the cost of you HI plan) can't afford HI because of the costs. Second, another 10 Million aready qualify for some govt run program, Medicaid, CCHIP, and others, but haven't applied.

    So this really leaves the number of uninsured at 10 million, many of these who have been denied do to pre existing conditions, which I do agree we need to do something about.

    But the House, Senate, Obama plans do nothing to help the 10 million who CAN afford HI but chose not too... except force them under a large fine to buy it.

    There is no getting around the fact that this will be the first time that as an American you will be FORCED to buy a product or pay a fine.
    "I know you guys enjoy reading my stuff because it all makes sense. "

    Dumbest post ever! Thanks for the laugh PO!

  8. #8
    Member NBuffaloResident's Avatar
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    I just chopped the numbers up some more, and if you look at total health care spending as a figure of GSP (Gross state product), Massachusetts ranks at 28 out of 50.

    So, in reality, their spending on health care is not really all the insane. 14.1% of GSP. Far better than West Virginia, Missouri, Kentucky...

    So, maybe this isn't such a bad idea at all, modeling our health care reform bill like Massachusetts..
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    Quote Originally Posted by NBuffaloResident View Post
    I think your Massachusetts statistics are a bit off... Massachussets is far eclisped by New York, New Jersey, Florida, North Carolina, and California. (http://www.cms.hhs.gov/NationalHealt...ads/res-us.pdf) and (http://www.statehealthfacts.org/comp...?ind=261&cat=5)

    Of course, that's as of 2004. I couldn't find any more recent numbers detailing personal health care costs.
    Um... you off here. Mass is the highest spender (besides DC) by a few hundred in 2004, this was 2 years BEFORE they mandated HI coverage for everyone.

    http://www.statehealthfactsonline.or...4&typ=4&sort=a
    "I know you guys enjoy reading my stuff because it all makes sense. "

    Dumbest post ever! Thanks for the laugh PO!

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    Quote Originally Posted by NBuffaloResident View Post
    I just chopped the numbers up some more, and if you look at total health care spending as a figure of GSP (Gross state product), Massachusetts ranks at 28 out of 50.

    So, in reality, their spending on health care is not really all the insane. 14.1% of GSP. Far better than West Virginia, Missouri, Kentucky...

    So, maybe this isn't such a bad idea at all, modeling our health care reform bill like Massachusetts..
    I'm sorry but the last time i checked a Dollar was worth the same weather you in MA, VA, TX, CA or FL...
    "I know you guys enjoy reading my stuff because it all makes sense. "

    Dumbest post ever! Thanks for the laugh PO!

  11. #11
    Member NBuffaloResident's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougles View Post
    Um... you off here. Mass is the highest spender (besides DC) by a few hundred in 2004, this was 2 years BEFORE they mandated HI coverage for everyone.

    http://www.statehealthfactsonline.or...4&typ=4&sort=a
    Good find. I didn't see that.

    So, Massachusetts is spending about a hundred dollars more per person than NYS, and everyone is covered.

    Seems like they got the bases covered. The state spends only $100 more per person, and every single person is covered by health insurance.

    Seems like a good game plan to follow.
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  12. #12
    Member NBuffaloResident's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougles View Post
    I'm sorry but the last time i checked a Dollar was worth the same weather you in MA, VA, TX, CA or FL...
    Of course, if you have more money, you can spend it on better programs. Seems like they decided to spend their money on better health care for people.

    Sounds like a win-win to me.
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    Member ryan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NBuffaloResident View Post
    And 100% free for him, at that. And 100% subsidized by tax payers. In fact, Bill Krystol actually stated it's the best health care system in the world. Just the regular Americans don't deserve it.
    Wrong. I'm in the National Guard. Guard folks don't get 100% free health care. Thanks for assuming you know everything about me though.
    Someone who can't balance a budget probably shouldn't be in a position to spend someone else's money.

  14. #14
    Member NBuffaloResident's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryan View Post
    Wrong. I'm in the National Guard. Guard folks don't get 100% free health care. Thanks for assuming you know everything about me though.
    You do while on active duty, correct?

    I mean, you wouldn't expect an employer to cover someone when they are not at work, correct? Or offer benefits to a part-time employee, would you?

    Source - http://www.tricare.mil/mybenefit/hom...veAndFamilies?
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  15. #15
    Member ryan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mindcrime View Post
    Well, driving, owning a home or renting something are not essential facets of life. Getting a kidney transplant or chemotherapy is.
    I'd say that renting/owning a home is not a luxury. What else would you suggest? Live on the street?

    I'd be interested to see a study that shows how poor life choices drinking/smoking/obesity/etc effect health costs later in life. Again, why is the government subsidizing your bad investment?
    Someone who can't balance a budget probably shouldn't be in a position to spend someone else's money.

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