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Thread: Impeach Pataki!

  1. #1
    Member dtwarren's Avatar
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    Impeach Pataki!

    Download and sign the petition and collect signatures of others! http://www.upstate-citizens.org . Also let your State Legislators know http://capwiz.com/congressorg/issues...&mailid=custom

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    Two questions:

    1) Why would we want to impeach pataki?

    2) Who was the last governor you liked?

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    Gold Member Night Owl's Avatar
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    therising, I wondered those two questions with one more...

    1) How do we know the next will be better, the same or even worse for Western New York?

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    Member dtwarren's Avatar
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    The issue is not whether or not we did or will like past or future governors. The question is will we condone violations of the State Constitution and the destruction of our republican form of government.

    Recently the Governor and Tax Commissioner Eristoff have announced that they are extending the comment period indefinitely on the regulations required to be promulgated by Tax Law §§ 284-E, 301-a, 471-e, 1112, & 1210. These statutes require that these regulations be promulgated and implemented within 120 days
    from May 15, 2003. As you are aware in response to this announcement UCE has initiated a petition to have the Governor impeached for the following reasons.

    This act by the Governor and Tax Commissioner usurp the power of the legislature in violation of the separation of powers doctrine together with Article IV § 3 and Article XVI § 1 of the New York Constitution. It is the Legislature that determines the law and policy, the Governor and the executive branch must expedite and execute such laws. By extending indefinitely the comment period on these regulations the Governor and Tax Commissioner are in effect getting a second veto of this law one that is not provided by our Constitution and they are violating their oaths of office in which they swore to uphold the constitution and laws of this state. As you are aware the Legislature overrode the Governor’s veto of this bill in passing Chapter 62 of the Laws of 2003. If the Governor can change law and policy in this manner there is no need for a Legislature.

    This conduct by our Governor and Tax Commissioner should not be tolerated regardless of your position on whether this should, or should not, be the law of this state. This issue has now evolved from a policy difference between reasonable people to a threat that stands to endanger our very form of government. By allowing this to continue we will set a dangerous precedent whereby the balance of power between our three co-equal branches of government will be severely and irreparably damaged and start us on a path towards a government of men and not of laws together with its resultant authoritarian possibilities.

    Sincerely,

    Daniel T. Warren
    Chair
    Niagara Frontier Chapter of Upstate Citizens for Equality
    http://www.upstate-citizens.org

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    Originally posted by dtwarren

    Recently the Governor and Tax Commissioner Eristoff have announced that they are extending the comment period indefinitely on the regulations required to be promulgated by Tax Law §§ 284-E, 301-a, 471-e, 1112, & 1210. These statutes require that these regulations be promulgated and implemented within 120 days
    from May 15, 2003.


    Sincerely,

    Daniel T. Warren
    Chair
    Niagara Frontier Chapter of Upstate Citizens for Equality
    http://www.upstate-citizens.org
    Instead of referencing sections of Tax Law, could you please tell us, in English, what you're getting at.

    Could it have something to do with this:

    http://honorindiantreaties.org/


    Just for the record, Mr. Warren, would I be correct in assuming that you sell smokes for a living?

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    Member dtwarren's Avatar
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    Originally posted by therising
    Instead of referencing sections of Tax Law, could you please tell us, in English, what you're getting at.

    Could it have something to do with this:

    http://honorindiantreaties.org/


    Just for the record, Mr. Warren, would I be correct in assuming that you sell smokes for a living?
    First off I do not sell smokes for a living.

    It does to a certain extent have to do with the content of that site.

    In english the Governor is making law and policy decisions which is reserved to the legislature thereby violating the New York Constitution. For this reason he should be removed from office because this is the only remedy the people and the legislature have.

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    Gold Member Night Owl's Avatar
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    The issue is not whether or not we did or will like past or future governors.

    When I asked the question: How do we know the next will be better, the same or even worse for Western New York? It wasn't a concern for 'liking' someone. It was asked for the best interest of Western New York, Erie County & Buffalo.

  8. #8
    Member dtwarren's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Night Owl
    The issue is not whether or not we did or will like past or future governors.

    When I asked the question: How do we know the next will be better, the same or even worse for Western New York? It wasn't a concern for 'liking' someone. It was asked for the best interest of Western New York, Erie County & Buffalo.
    The only way to insure that a governor is good for WNY is to, in part, make sure he is good for the state. A governor who willfully and intentionally violates a number of State Constitutional provisions, doctrines and his oath of office is definitely not good for either. If a governor at least follows his constitutional duty it is more likely that he will also be good for WNY because when the legislature passes a law that is good for WNY at least we are assured that he will enforce it.

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    Here's my feeling:

    In all honesty, I don't really care about this. Maybe I'm being ignorant, but I have no real feeling on the Indian matter.

    I assume you may have some financial interest in it, but I don't. So, please tell me why I, or anyone else, should care enough to want the gov'r impeached.

  10. #10
    Member dtwarren's Avatar
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    Originally posted by therising
    Here's my feeling:

    In all honesty, I don't really care about this. Maybe I'm being ignorant, but I have no real feeling on the Indian matter.

    I assume you may have some financial interest in it, but I don't. So, please tell me why I, or anyone else, should care enough to want the gov'r impeached.
    As I stated before what you feel or think about the indian matter is irrelevant to the issue.

    If you allow the governor to usurp the legislature's power once, even if you do not care about it, sooner or latter it will happen on something you do care about and then it will be too late because the precedent will have already been established.

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    So are you telling me that this is strictly a matter of principal? And that you have no financial stake in this issue?

    Please tell the truth.

  12. #12
    Member dtwarren's Avatar
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    Originally posted by therising
    So are you telling me that this is strictly a matter of principal? And that you have no financial stake in this issue?

    Please tell the truth.
    That is correct.

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    Then I truly do admire you for sticking up for your principles. You obviously have put a ton of time into this. (I assume you're retired?).
    Regardless, I don't agree with your issue, but, as John Lennon said: Whatever gets you through the night...


    Just one more time: It's strictly the principle, and has nothing at all to do with the the Indians, per se, right?

  14. #14
    Member citymouse's Avatar
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    I never realized the amount of prejudice against native Americans that exists in this area.
    I new there was a lot of it in Dakota and in the Southwest, but now I am witnessing more and more of it here?
    Why do you think that is?
    "If you want to know what God thinks of money just look at the people he gave it to."

    By the way, what happened to biker? I miss the old coot.

  15. #15
    Member dtwarren's Avatar
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    This has nothing to do with prejudice or money, but of lawlessness. It should not be necessary to again emphasize that this is not a case about land taxes, personal property taxes, or income taxes, nor has any Indian been subjected to taxation. Rather, "the competitive advantage which the Indian seller doing business on tribal land enjoys over all other . . . retailers, within and without the reservation, is dependent on the extent to which the non-Indian purchaser is willing to flout his legal obligation to pay the tax" (Moe v Confederated Salish & Kootenai Tribes of Flathead Reservation, 425 U.S. 463, at 482 [emphasis in original]).

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