Why Jefferson should be in the libertarian hall of fame.

[Jim Ostrowski]

One of the main reasons we're doing this project is its educational value.

Here are some of Thomas Jefferson's contributions to individual liberty.

*Wrote the Declaration of Independence, a concise statement of revolutionary libertarian principles. The world would never be the same

It showed intellectual brilliance and physical courage--he could have been hanged for it and nearly was.

*Wrote Virginia Statute for Religious Liberty

*Was a prime mover behind the bill of rights and particularly, the First Amendment.

*Led a populist and peaceful revolt against the big government Federalists in 1800 and actually made government smaller, the only time such an event has occurred in American History.

*abolished primogeniture (estate goes to oldest son)

* Jefferson was right about so many important issues of his time and ours, it's difficult to list them all--right to bear arms, jury nullification--when I think of more, I'll post them.

[Jim Ostrowski]

Wikipedia on Jefferson's efforts against slavery--

Jefferson and slavery

Records show that Jefferson owned many slaves over his lifetime. Some find it hypocritical that Thomas Jefferson owned slaves yet was outspoken in saying that slavery was immoral and it should be abolished. In the Declaration of Independence, he states that " All men are created equal", yet he owned slaves himself.

During his long career in public office, Jefferson attempted numerous times to abolish or limit the advance of slavery. According to a biographer, Jefferson "believed that it was the responsibility of the state and society to free all slaves".[38] In 1769, as a member of the House of Burgesses, Jefferson proposed for that body to emancipate slaves in Virginia, but he was unsuccessful.[39] In his first draft of the Declaration of Independence (1776), Jefferson condemned the British crown for sponsoring the importation of slavery to the colonies, charging that the crown "has waged cruel war against human nature itself, violating its most sacred rights of life and liberty in the persons of a distant people who never offended him, captivating & carrying them into slavery in another hemisphere." However, this language was dropped from the Declaration at the request of delegates from South Carolina and Georgia.

In 1778, the legislature passed a bill he proposed to ban further importation of slaves into Virginia; although this did not bring complete emancipation, in his words, it "stopped the increase of the evil by importation, leaving to future efforts its final eradication." In 1784, Jefferson's draft of what became the Northwest Ordinance stipulated that "there shall be neither slavery nor involuntary servitude" in any of the new states admitted to the Union from the Northwest Territory.[40] In 1807, he signed a bill abolishing the slave trade.

[therising]

Good luck raising funds for this.

Some museums receive funding from the government. I'm sure your's won't ask for it.

[Jim Ostrowski]

Governments love to fund cultural institutions and the usually cashed-starved culturals love to take the bait.

Through such bribes, the government buys off intellectual dissent and conformity to the State's agenda. Lincoln started us off on that road and FDR and LBJ became masters at it.

Also, since every subsidy is an argument for every other subsidy, the culturals become part of the whole welfare/warfare/pork axis. They logroll and support all the other subsidies as well.

Finally, accepting this easy, few-strings-attached money from politicians makes life easier for the culturals who then have less pressure to compete in the marketplace and provide a product that people will actually pay for.

[therising]

Governments love to fund cultural institutions and the usually cashed-starved culturals love to take the bait.

Through such bribes, the government buys off intellectual dissent and conformity to the State's agenda. Lincoln started us off on that road and FDR and LBJ became masters at it.

Also, since every subsidy is an argument for every other subsidy, the culturals become part of the whole welfare/warfare/pork axis. They logroll and support all the other subsidies as well.

Finally, accepting this easy, few-strings-attached money from politicians makes life easier for the culturals who then have less pressure to compete in the marketplace and provide a product that people will actually pay for.

Sorry, but I didn't see an answer there.

Will your Liberterian "less government" museum accept gov't funding?

[steven]

Some find it hypocritical that Thomas Jefferson owned slaves yet was outspoken in saying that slavery was immoral and it should be abolished.

That would be me.

How do you explain this contrast?

[Jim Ostrowski]

Free Buffalo does not take government money.

As for Jefferson, you contend he was a hypocrite so the burden is on you to priove that, not on me to disprove your contention.

Jefferson was born into a world where slavery was commonplace.

He was one of the leading activists against slavery of his time. Not much more needs to be said. We've been through all this before.

[steven]

As for Jefferson, you contend he was a hypocrite so the burden is on you to priove that, not on me to disprove your contention.

Jefferson was born into a world where slavery was commonplace.

I think its pretty obvious I was responding to your own post on the subject.

Originally Posted by Jim Ostrowski
Some find it hypocritical that Thomas Jefferson owned slaves yet was outspoken in saying that slavery was immoral and it should be abolished.

There is no burden for me to prove, the man had slaves and he spoke out against slavery. Sounds pretty hypocritical to me, do I need to expound on that thought????????????

Not much more needs to be said. We've been through all this before.

Then why did you bring it up?????????

[Jim Ostrowski]

My Merriam Webster's 10th says hypocrisy is:

"Feigning to be what one is not or to believe what one does not."

I would think a good example would be privately holding racist beliefs while publicly claiming to love all mankind equally. You do so because you want to be loved, liked, etc. You're a hypocrite because you're acting in a deceptive manner which is where the word comes from in the first place.

[steven]

You're a hypocrite because you're acting in a deceptive manner which is where the word comes from in the first place.

IE: having slaves and speaking out against the evils of slavery. Are we on the same page?

[Stevenco]

...not to mention the Lewis and Clark expodition and the Louisiana purchase..

[Jim Ostrowski]

No deception, no hypocrisy.

In any event, it's a boring and tedious topic and has little to do with the subject.

I've never met a saint. The best men I know made mistakes.

We're not doing a sainthood hall of fame.

Obviously, when me and mine praise Jefferson, we are referring to his words and deeds as a stateman, not his personal life.

When it comes to Grover Cleveland, people will say he dodged the draft and had an out-of-wedlock child, and I'll respond, what does that have to do with the issue? The issue is, did he make a major contribution to individual liberty?

Ayn Rand had an open marriage. Same deal.

Mencken was a bigot, allegedly. So, what. Did he make a major contribution to individual liberty?

[mikewrona]

IE: having slaves and speaking out against the evils of slavery. Are we on the same page?

It seems that while the Rebels were struggling to survive theirwar against the British Jefferson was a leader in the free the slaves movement. Oddly enough his position seems to have changed after 1783 when it became clear the colonies would indeed gain their independence. Could it be that deep down in his heart he figure that the slaves where the rebels ace in the hole. Hold out the prospect of liberation and thereby keep the Continental Army open as an option for enlistment by the blacks.

The Encyclopedia Britannica has this to say about Jefferson after 1789:
(I know, evil British propoganda)

Dating the onset of a long silence is inevitably an imprecise business, but by the time of his return to the United States in 1789 Jefferson had backed away from a leadership position on slavery. The ringing denunciations of slavery presented in Notes had generated controversy, especially within the planter class of Virginia, and Jefferson's deep aversion to controversy made him withdraw from the cutting edge of the antislavery movement once he experienced the sharp feelings it aroused. Moreover, the very logic of his argument in Notes exposed the inherent intractability of his position. Although he believed that slavery was a gross violation of the principles celebrated in the Declaration of Independence, he also believed that people of African descent were biologically inferior to whites and could never live alongside whites in peace and harmony. They would have to be transported elsewhere, back to Africa or perhaps the Caribbean, after emancipation. Because such a massive deportation was a logistical and economic impossibility, the unavoidable conclusion was that, though slavery was wrong, ending it, at least at present, was inconceivable. That became Jefferson's public position throughout the remainder of his life.

It also shaped his personal posture as a slave owner. Jefferson owned, on average, about 200 slaves at any point in time, and slightly over 600 over his lifetime. To protect himself from facing the reality of his problematic status as plantation master, he constructed a paternalistic self-image as a benevolent father caring for what he called “my family.” Believing that he and his slaves were the victims of history's failure to proceed along the enlightened path, he saw himself as the steward for those entrusted to his care until a better future arrived for them all. In the meantime, his own lavish lifestyle and all the incessant and expensive renovations of his Monticello mansion were wholly dependent on slave labour. Whatever silent thoughts he might have harboured about freeing his slaves never found their way into the record. (He freed only five slaves, all members of the Hemings family.) His mounting indebtedness rendered all such thoughts superfluous toward the end, because his slaves, like all his possessions, were mortgaged to his creditors and therefore not really his to free.

[Stevenco]

Obviously, when me and mine praise Jefferson,

You write books?

[Batman]

Another thread derailed by liberal revisionists.

White elitists pretending to have empathy for minorities.

Jim, there's no intelligent life on this planet.