The Current Magic Bullets

[300miles]

Silver Bullets. I think that was the topic here... maybe... could be wrong.



Of course I'd rather talk about secret societies and if Biker and Downstate are in mortal danger for spilling the beans.

[Downstate Buffaloian]

Do they have to kill you now for revealing their secret?

Hey, it actually happened here on Long Island

Check this out:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3500022.stm

[biker]

I bet most college graduates don't even make $50K in Buffalo nowadays. Is that a good thing?

It depends on what they studied at college. Try two that begin with "e".

Do you think an English major makes the same as an engineer. An electrical engineer will easily make $50k per year, even in Buffalo.

Achebek made an excellent post along these lines when she first joined us two years ago.

[biker]

Hey, it actually happened here on Long Island

Check this out:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3500022.stm

I don't have to check that out.

It actually happened here, in Batavia.

It triggered an anti-Masonic movement nation-wide.

[Downstate Buffaloian]

It depends on what they studied at college. Try two that begin with "e".

Do you think an English major makes the same as an engineer. An electrical engineer will easily make $50k per year, even in Buffalo.

Achebek made an excellent post along these lines when she first joined us two years ago.

I knew plenty of people in fields like Journalism, Hospital Administration and Urban Planning that are not making 50K after 10 years or more in Buffalo. One of my friends who is lawyer only makes 52,000 per year.

I don't think it matters what kind of degree you have in Buffalo, the wages stink!

[biker]

Silver Bullets. I think that was the topic here... maybe... could be wrong.



Of course I'd rather talk about secret societies and if Biker and Downstate are in mortal danger for spilling the beans.

Actually, it's closer than you think.

Is Buffalo's (and Detroit's and....) decline a function of a natural, global realignment of jobs, excacerbated (sp?) by taxes and regulations.

Or.

Is it the result of some secret cabal, out to destroy the middle class?

[Downstate Buffaloian]

Actually, it's closer than you think.

Is Buffalo's (and Detroit's and....) decline a function of a natural, global realignment of jobs, excacerbated (sp?) by taxes and regulations.

Or.

Is it the result of some secret cabal, out to destroy the middle class?

Even it is "natural" do you think it is good for country? Personally, I think we are finished, economically, geopolitically, morally, etc.

I wish it weren't true.

[300miles]

In either case... whether the economic changes are driven by the natural evolution of business, or driven by a secret wealthy elite that manipulate everything...

either way, buffalo and WNY'ers don't have the influence to change it. So we need to play the game. If part of that game means changing our city to meet the new reality, then we have to do it.

But I'm not sure how that knowledge changes the debate on Silver Bullets. A smart investment is a smart investment. A bad investment is a bad investment. The secret hand governing how the world works isn't something we need to identify in order to improve Buffalo.

None of that knowledge, for example, changes anyone's mind whether a building on Allen should be saved or demolished, or whether a new Waterfront is good or bad.

[Downstate Buffaloian]

In either case... whether the economic changes are driven by the natural evolution of business, or driven by a secret wealthy elite that manipulate everything...

Just for the record I'm not talking about a broad elite not a secret society elite.

[Achbek1]

Achbek, I'm also in my early 30's and I've seen the area decline from a "real" city with a vibrant downtown and solid ethnic working class neighborhoods into a ghetto with a few pockets of old-money upper middle class. Unfortunately, I'm sorry to say but the decline is permenant and there will never be a strong middle or well paid working class in the city again. The problem is not what is done in the local area but what our economic policy is on a national and international level.

Back in the early 1970's the elite decided that the middle class and unionized working class was making too much money and had too much leasure time on their hands and were becoming a threat to their power. Environmental laws and labor regulations were also stifling their profit margin. The rich in the 1945-1973 era struggled compared to the obscene amounts of wealth they had in the 1920's before the Great Depression and the New Deal. They decided that they could build their goods at a lower cost overseas and not have to worry about troublesome environmental regulations and labor unions. Thus starting in the 1970's they closed plants in the U.S. and opened them in places like Mexico, China, and the Phillipiines. At first this caused massive unemployment in the old industrial cities, however this eased as many of these unemployed people moved south. Why did they move south? because the Regan Revolution of the 1980's created a new economy based on sunbelt suburban sprawl and borrowed money defense spending (a majority of bases are in the sunbelt). The raw growth caused by people moving from the north to the south artificially created tons of service jobs. They didn't pay well but the cost of living in the sunbelt was so low that it didn't matter. The cost of consumer goods decreased signifcantly. So a person could afford a big screen TV and IPOD even if they lacked health insurance. The values of the society shifted from having a sole breadwinner with stable employment, high wages and good benefits to having multiple low-income earners with no benefits but have lots of consumer goods (it fit in well with feminism and the new materialism of the baby boomer generation) (Not coincidentally, this was also the time when the Democratic party's emphasis moved from representing the needs and interests of the working class to those of the socially liberal elite). Since profit margins increased greatly the number of wealthy people exploded and their influence on government greatly increased, all while median household income stagnated (even with more workers per household) Meanwhile more and more manufacturers left the industrial cities of the north leaving their citizens and governments increasingly bankrupt (they also left an industrial legacy of toxic waste that still haunts us today)

Some of the larger International Cities like New York, Chicago and Toronto benefitted greatly from this new setup as they are the command and control Centers of the new economy with plenty of international headquarters and wealthy citizens earning dividends in the booming stock market. Regional centers like Atlanta, Denver and Phoenix thrived because they received huge amounts of migrants fleeing the north (see sprawl economy above) and their rural hinterlands that were deindustrialized (think rural southern mill towns).

In the 1990's wages started to creep up in the service sector. So, in order to correct this little problem the government (backed by the interests big business) decided to stop defending our southern border. These illegal immigrants flooded the market and lowered wages in the service and construction sectors. They also increased the price of real estate which helped longtime homeowners but made it difficult for traditional native born middle-class nuclear families to own a home in some of these booming areas (unless they were willing to live in close proxmity to these new immigrants which often have 4 or more incomes in extended families in order to afford a home in these areas, and these immigrants decreased the quality of the schools and raised the taxes for English as a second language programs).

This all went along well until the mid 00's until we reached a point where the sprawl as growth machine has broken down. Housing prices in these booming areas has reached a point where they are starting to decline. Homeowners can no longer count on constantly raising housing prices to supplement their incomes by borrowing from their home equity loans. The prices continue to decline now matter how many new immigrants move to that city. Cheap energy is gone making all those McMansions expensive to heat and too far away to commute to economically. America is now dependant on foriegn goods and foriegn sources of energy and is now so indebted to China and Japan all in a fruitless attempt to maintain prosperity in the face of deindustrialization.

Places like Buffalo or Flint Michigan, Rochester, Syracuse, Utica, Dayton, OH, Detroit, Pittsburgh are not needed in the global economy. Manufacturing will not come back. No other industry will provide the value added jobs that Buffalo once had. The only hope is growth in professional jobs and headquarters jobs l(ike at HSBC and M&T) in fields such as finance, law, engineering, graphic arts, marketing, etc. The only hope for working class people is to get some of the spin off service jobs created by the salaries of these professionals. That is why I am so in favor of making more of the city like Elmwood Avenue. People in these professions tend to like hip urban environments and those that like the suburbs like cosmopolitan suburbs like Amherst. They don't want rundown areas (Riverside, East Side, etc.) or bland declining traditional suburbs like Cheektowaga.

I agree that Buffalo is a horrible situation. However, you must see that this is really a national economic problem. It only stands to get worse if energy costs skyrocket and the southern sprawl cities become unsustainable and join the rustbelt in decline. That will leave only a few select cities in North America such the New York Toronto and Chicago that will have stable economies. This is the course the elite have layed out for the country. If you honestly think that the multi-millionaires (that live within a few miles of where I live on Long Island, so I know what they think) really care about this country and cities like Buffalo then I have a bridge in Brooklyn I'm willing to sell you. They are globally oriented and pretty much think that outside a few pockets that this country should be left to rot.

Whoah Downstate, you should host your own show on the history channel... Thank you for pointing out the historic reasons behind much of the "rustbelt" decline...

The changing economy does have a lot to do with where we are now...

[biker]

Even it is "natural" do you think it is good for country? Personally, I think we are finished, economically, geopolitically, morally, etc.

I wish it weren't true.

I don't think we're finished, but the future is not going to look anything like the past. There doesn't seem to be any justification for Americans to make 50x (or whatever) more than people in China.

What do you think was the purpose of the World Bank and the IMF making all those loans since WWII? To develop the Third World, right?

Developing them into industrial societies. Well, who do you think is going to buy all the stuff they make?

And---not to get too metaphysical---do you think God cares for Americans more than Indians or Asians?

[biker]

In either case... whether the economic changes are driven by the natural evolution of business, or driven by a secret wealthy elite that manipulate everything...

either way, buffalo and WNY'ers don't have the influence to change it. So we need to play the game. If part of that game means changing our city to meet the new reality, then we have to do it.

But I'm not sure how that knowledge changes the debate on Silver Bullets. A smart investment is a smart investment. A bad investment is a bad investment. The secret hand governing how the world works isn't something we need to identify in order to improve Buffalo.

None of that knowledge, for example, changes anyone's mind whether a building on Allen should be saved or demolished, or whether a new Waterfront is good or bad.

You do realize you're becoming tedious, don't you?

Because: a)a thread wanders; and b)because this discussion is relevant to the silver bullet question.

These silver bullets are justified as being essential to "bring back" Buffalo.

There may be nothing to "bring back" Buffalo, except maybe the Middle East and all its oil turned into a giant piece of glass. Then, the Erie Canal might be needed again.

And as to preservation or not, we might get back to that.

Join in the conversation if you wish, but don't chide people who are trying to gain an understanding of how we got here.

[300miles]

I'm being tedious?

Oh OK. Didn't mean to intrude in your personal discussion here. I'll let you get back to the Great Lib Conspiracy and the History of the Known Universe. For some reason I thought this was about Silver Bullets in WNY. (the damn title threw me a curve again...)

I guess I'm a little too focused on discussions that can actually make a difference here in Buffalo while I'm still young.... which is what I thought this was about.

My mistake.

[Downstate Buffaloian]

And---not to get too metaphysical---do you think God cares for Americans more than Indians or Asians?

Wow, I think you are the only Evangelical Christian that doesn't believe in American exceptionalism.

Of course God cares about the other people of the world. However they can develop in a way that doesn't come at the expense our economy. Export the goods that they produce best not steal our industries. I believe in fair trade not free trade.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

I knew plenty of people in fields like Journalism, Hospital Administration and Urban Planning that are not making 50K after 10 years or more in Buffalo. One of my friends who is lawyer only makes 52,000 per year.

I don't think it matters what kind of degree you have in Buffalo, the wages stink!

You can make more then 50k bar tending in Buffalo. That will always be a thriving business.