The Current Magic Bullets

[Achbek1]

I think you're back to the people whom you said cause you some discomfort. The quirky protestor people.

For some reason, they have the itch to drag down the successful.

In the eighties, they dumped on MacDonalds until they became mediocre.
In the nineties, they dumped on Microsoft until it became mediocre
Now, they're dumping on Walmart.

I wonder which company will be the target in the teens?

That makes sense because now they have left Starbucks alone.

Remember how the "quirky protestor" flipped when Starbucks opened on Elmwood and on Delaware about ten years ago?

Now they seem to be okay with it. Or at least it's not cool to protest anymore.

[LHardy]

It depends on how you run the numbers. In many cases its cheaper to rehab because your running the numbers to exclude remediation and demolition, and your also running the numbers for rehab programs, low interest loans, tax abatements, etc which few new buildings would qualify.

So we disagree but it depends on how you run the numbers and to say otherwise makes you less open minded and more of an absolutist ideologue.

Well let me put it to you this way. My bottom line grows quicker through new builds then it does through the Buffalo Preservation program.

BTW-Have you noticed all of the Contractor/Developers lining up to rehab old, out of date and code, buildings through Historical Preservation guidelines?
One or two project every ten to fifteen years is not a success story.
Nor are grant programs that are needed to spur development.
I love what they have done with the 100 mil. on the Richardson Complex.
It wasn't the State Insane Asylum for nothing you do know!

If it is a viable commodity, private dollars will flock to invest. All I see around WNY is begging for handouts from the state and federal purse strings. Strings, that lead right back too the pocket of the taxpayers. Taxpayers who are already over burdened by the taxes they pay and owe. Many, who owe much in back taxes, are being foreclosed upon by the county. Unless of course your name is…..ohhh, I don’t know? George Holt!

None of these qualities equals a viable investment risk. They can raise the Moody/Fitch to Baa3,it will not stay there long with the debt piling up in the city, county and state.

Yes debt, The amount of borrowing these guys have done has put us so far behind the mark. Kind of ironic considering some of the members on this board, who like to complain about the Fed deficit and here their own is oblivious to them.

If it walks like a duck.

[concernedwnyer]

I guess Bass Pro is no longer considered one of the magic bullets, is that true? Strange though, as the State Donavan Building was just evacuated in order to destruct and create parking for said fish store.

Bass Pro was suppose to have made an announcement on the decision they made in regard to the Aud. It has already been determineduilding.. that the Aud will be coming down..... Perhaps three generations from now but better late than never....

What I do not understand is why those knuckle heads keep coming back to look at the Aud???? Do they want to get another look at the bathroom stalls??? I would not be a bit surprised if we are paying for their flights down here to look at the Aud again. again, and again.

We need to put pressure on Higgins, the common council and the E C dev. corp to cut the ties and just level the damn building and sell the prime property spot. If the fish store wants it then they buy the land build the building and pay taxes so they could sell there canoes and bows and arrows.This arrangement is just as bad as the Casino arrangement.

[Achbek1]

Well let me put it to you this way. My bottom line grows quicker through new builds then it does through the Buffalo Preservation program.

BTW-Have you noticed all of the Contractor/Developers lining up to rehab old, out of date and code, buildings through Historical Preservation guidelines?
One or two project every ten to fifteen years is not a success story.
Nor are grant programs that are needed to spur development.
I love what they have done with the 100 mil. on the Richardson Complex.
It wasn't the State Insane Asylum for nothing you do know!

If it is a viable commodity, private dollars will flock to invest. All I see around WNY is begging for handouts from the state and federal purse strings. Strings, that lead right back too the pocket of the taxpayers. Taxpayers who are already over burdened by the taxes they pay and owe. Many, who owe much in back taxes, are being foreclosed upon by the county. Unless of course your name is…..ohhh, I don’t know? George Holt!

None of these qualities equals a viable investment risk. They can raise the Moody/Fitch to Baa3,it will not stay there long with the debt piling up in the city, county and state.

Yes debt, The amount of borrowing these guys have done has put us so far behind the mark. Kind of ironic considering some of the members on this board, who like to complain about the Fed deficit and here their own is oblivious to them.

If it walks like a duck.

LHardy.

Layin' all on the line!

That's another point about old buildings, not only are the out of date but they are also often out of code! So we are trading pretty for practical.

Another thing about the preservationists, they often care more about how things will LOOK than how things will FUNCTION. And old rotting building may look pretty, but if it is sitting empty what good does it do?

And I also have not heard of grant programs to rehab historic buildings... All I know is that the Department of the Interior has guidelines for remodeling old historic houses to make them look officially historic.

[therising]

News to me. Who's been saying that either a casino or preservation will 'save Buffalo'? Names and articles, please - not a general "they".

Edisonic raises a good point, but everyone is ignoring it.

When did anyone ever say that any project was a "magic bullet", "be all end all", etc???

No politician would ever be dumb enough to say this. Yet, whenever any large project is announced in this town (Bass Pro, Casino, 40-story tower, etc) so many of you down-trodden WNYers just roll your eyes and say "Yeah, right another magic bullet "

You people need a little hope and a whole lot less skepticism.

[LHardy]

Edisonic raises a good point, but everyone is ignoring it.

When did anyone ever say that any project was a "magic bullet", "be all end all", etc???

No politician would ever be dumb enough to say this. Yet, whenever any large project is announced in this town (Bass Pro, Casino, 40-story tower, etc) so many of you down-trodden WNYers just roll your eyes and say "Yeah, right another magic bullet "

That "Magic Bullet" was given legs by the local media. Who-da-thunk?
We roll our eyes due to the history of our leaders. Imagine that?

You people need a little hope and a whole lot less skepticism.

The fact that you say this is evidence that the people have given up hope and pray for a painless death.

What the people need and the state needs are real leaders. Leaders with vision and foresight that is not hampered by political gain. Instead what do they provide for themselves? Machinists who oil and lube the political machine; scouring all its’ parts for gratitude.
A machine intent upon self-preservation at all costs. These costs have been incurred, have you not noticed the rapid decline of our region.
Was it 400 some people who where laid of last week with 3 more plant closings and/or lay-offs.
I call those harbingers of great news! Don't you?

[LHardy]

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[leets]

Actually to be factual here preservation of older buildings has proven to be a highly successful economic development tool in Buffalo. Look around the evidence is everyplace. 90% of the new development in Buffalo is preservation based. The wealthiest most economically prosperous areas of the city are those where money has been invested in the restoration and maintenance of old buildings.

Save a historic building and you create a place that attracts other business. Build a Walmart and other businesses close. I would say the build anything just to build something mentality is the silver bullet here.

[Edisonic]

...an old rotting building may look pretty...

That's really what you believe people are thinking? "Let's have old, ROTTING buildings." ?
I'm fascinated.

[Achbek1]

That's really what you believe people are thinking? "Let's have old, ROTTING buildings." ?
I'm fascinated.

With all due respect, some of them are "rotting."

Unless it's the Parthenon in Greece, buildings aren't really built to last forever. They are made of wood and paster, etc. that does decompose over time... Also, foundations sink, roofs fall offf, etc.

And safety and electrical codes have changed over the last hundred years, so many of these buildings are not practical for current business or residential use...

And again, I am not saying to knock down EVERY old building. I too, though I haven't mentioned in much in my rants, do appreciate the historic element of the city of Buffalo and I do get the "rush of awe" when I see the grand old buildings in the city... But there needs to be some compromise here.

If the building is beyond repair and really doesn't have any monumental architectural and historic significance, get rid of it.

As I have said before, our city is is dire straits and we must start moving as quickly as we can to save it.

If we were already a city full of financially prosperous businesses and financially prosperous, upscale citiizens then I would say "go for it, let's save every old building."

But we are not prosperous, we are dying.

Think about this: another city that has a reputation for being "bad" and on the decline is Detroit. When you hear about Detroit, you probably cringe and think "I wouldn't want ot vacation there, much less live there." Well Buffalo's poverty statistics are only about .2% under those of Detroit. And in regard to our crime statistics, I wouldn't be surprised if we came close soon... Now think, if someone told you, "But Detroit is full of beautiful old historic buildings! You should take a trip there, heck, you should move there!" you would think they were crazy.

So we need to let some of the past go to move forward. The LIVES of the residents of the city depend on it. And, as I have said before, I think the LIVES of HUMAN BEINGS are more important than the "lives" of old buildings.

[300miles]

And again, I am not saying to knock down EVERY old building. I too, though I haven't mentioned in much in my rants, do appreciate the historic element of the city of Buffalo and I do get the "rush of awe" when I see the grand old buildings in the city... But there needs to be some compromise here.

If the building is beyond repair and really doesn't have any monumental architectural and historic significance, get rid of it.

And who makes that decision? You? Part of the job of preservation boards is to weigh the decision of what must be saved and what can be removed, based on history, architecture, and the condition of the building.

As I have said before, our city is is dire straits and we must start moving as quickly as we can to save it.

If we were already a city full of financially prosperous businesses and financially prosperous, upscale citiizens then I would say "go for it, let's save every old building."

But we are not prosperous, we are dying.

Think about this: another city that has a reputation for being "bad" and on the decline is Detroit. When you hear about Detroit, you probably cringe and think "I wouldn't want ot vacation there, much less live there." Well Buffalo's poverty statistics are only about .2% under those of Detroit. And in regard to our crime statistics, I wouldn't be surprised if we came close soon... Now think, if someone told you, "But Detroit is full of beautiful old historic buildings! You should take a trip there, heck, you should move there!" you would think they were crazy.

So we need to let some of the past go to move forward. The LIVES of the residents of the city depend on it. And, as I have said before, I think the LIVES of HUMAN BEINGS are more important than the "lives" of old buildings.

Actually achbek Detroit has been much worse than buffalo in preserving their housing and old architecture. When a victorian building has a mature tree growing in the living room, then it's pretty far gone. Buffalo's housing stock is in remarkable condition compared with Detroit.

Comparing crime in Buffalo to that in Detroit is a strong statement to make without any facts to back it up. Detroit has had serious problems with crime that Buffalo is nowhere near.

The latest list of most dangerous cities listed these rankings:

338. Dallas
340. Buffalo, N.Y.
342. Kansas City, Kan.
343. Philadelphia
344. West Palm Beach, Fla.
345. Minneapolis

Why compare buffalo to dangerous detroit, when we're really comparable to Minneapolis and Dallas... hardly cities you'd be frightened to walk around in.

[biker]

That's really what you believe people are thinking? "Let's have old, ROTTING buildings." ?
I'm fascinated.

Being aloof, patrician and condescending does not contribute to the discussion.

Give something of yourself.

[Linda_D]

Edisonic raises a good point, but everyone is ignoring it.

When did anyone ever say that any project was a "magic bullet", "be all end all", etc???

No politician would ever be dumb enough to say this. Yet, whenever any large project is announced in this town (Bass Pro, Casino, 40-story tower, etc) so many of you down-trodden WNYers just roll your eyes and say "Yeah, right another magic bullet "

You people need a little hope and a whole lot less skepticism.

To my mind, a "magic bullet" is a large-scale project that requires large amounts of public money whether the end project is public or private and that promises large numbers of new jobs and "spin off" development. In that light, I would include Bass Pro, ECCC consolidation downtown, Outer Harbor development, as well as previous projects like Main Place Mall, Metro Rail, Theatre District. I think it also includes "magic bullets" that never came to fruitition: the West Side Arterial, building a new UB downtown, domed football stadium at the "Crossroads".

I wouldn't include the casino as a "magic bullet" because it's not sucking in millions of public $$$ on the promise of specious public benefit. The medical corridor isn't really a "magic bullet" either because the public investment has also been very limited. The various conversions of older commercial/industrial buildings into housing in and near downtown also aren't "magic bullets" because they're not large enough.

As for politicians making claims for "magic bullets", you are technically right. No pol has called Bass Pro a "magic bullet" but read some of Tony Masiello's statements on this projects from a few years back -- this project has been envisioned as "kick starting" the redevelopment of retail and tourism in downtown. Read the bull manure on the Outer Harbor development from the NFTA (or from Brian Higgins) about what sinking hundreds of millions of $$$ into the area will do for WNY.

As for others commenting on "magic bullets", well, Donn Esmonde has about one column every other month that laments the "lost opportunities" of bull-dozing Allentown in order to put UB "downtown" or having the Bills play in a domed stadium in downtown etc.

Sorry, but WNYers are skeptical with good reason.

[biker]

I believe there were many News articles WRT the Adelphia office complex that contained the word "magic bullet".

It also included a lot of public inducements.

Some of which have been recycled into the Bass Pro phantasm, IIRC.

[300miles]

I would agree on most of that. But I'd add, for a project to be lableled a silver bullet in WNY, it is only downtown. The term, while sometimes warranted for unrealistic projects, tends to be used with an anti-downtown slant.

When public money is spent elsewhere for similar projects, it never gets the silver bullet label.

Examples -

-- people say the attempt to put UB downtown was a silver bullet. Yet building UB in amherst was never called a silver bullet.

-- Some people called the downtown casino a silver bullet, but when it was going to cheektowaga it didn't get that label.

-- Spending $66 million on infrastructure for Bass Pro = Silver Bullet, but Amherst using $75 million in incentives to land a HSBC project with only 12 new jobs is not considered a Silver Bullet.

-- The buffalo waterfront = silver bullet. The wheatfield Oz themepark = not silver bullet.

For some reason, similar questionable projects in the suburbs never get the silver bullet label. Only downtown buffalo.

But otherwise I agree with the other parts:
- be a large project
- use considerable public funds
- have questionable benefit

Preventing the destruction of architecture is usually not a silver bullet in either case.