NY is #11

[dtwarren]

I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the concepts you are trying to discuss. For example for 2016 the Village of Potsdam has a fiscal stress score of 38.3% which means it does not have a fiscal stress designation and is down from 78.8% in 2015 when it was rated as being under Significant Fiscal Stress which was up from 2014 when its rating was 51.3% and was rated as being Susceptible of Fiscal Stress. None of this means that they cannot pay their bills as they come due or is unable to pay its debts as they become due which is the test for a municipality to be considered insolvent for purposes of being eligible to even file a Chapter 9 Bankruptcy petition. They may have some politically difficult choices to make, but they are not insolvent.

[WSFirst]

I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the concepts you are trying to discuss. For example for 2016 the Village of Potsdam has a fiscal stress score of 38.3% which means it does not have a fiscal stress designation and is down from 78.8% in 2015 when it was rated as being under Significant Fiscal Stress which was up from 2014 when its rating was 51.3% and was rated as being Susceptible of Fiscal Stress. None of this means that they cannot pay their bills as they come due or is unable to pay its debts as they become due which is the test for a municipality to be considered insolvent for purposes of being eligible to even file a Chapter 9 Bankruptcy petition. They may have some politically difficult choices to make, but they are not insolvent.

A lot of towns, cities, and villages are heading towards bankruptcy. I never said they couldn't pay their bills currently but the day is coming, I predict 2019 will be the first year of a town or village declaring bankruptcy. On Potsdam, 50% of the population pays 100% of the taxes direct quote from a town official.

By the way, that report was flawed because the town of Evans wasn't near the top and was a "moderate" stress level. If it wasn't for a loan from the county, Evans would have no choice but to declare bankruptcy.

Why was Evans a moderate stress level but needed a loan? only a 5 month gap between the release of the report and the emergency loan

1. Vendors went unpaid
2. "brink of financial collapse,"
Pretty sure that sounds like bankruptcy to me

[dtwarren]

And I predict you will never understand this issue.

The Town of Evans issue was a result of poor budgeting based on poor financial records ( https://www.osc.state.ny.us/localgov...2016/evans.pdf ) and years of borrowing and refusing to raise taxes as needed to address financial mismanagement that dated back nearly a decade. It would not have filed bankruptcy and the State would have put in a control board prior to that in any event.

[Save Us]

First of all the New York State Employee Retirement System has existed since 1921 and is one of the most well funded in the Country. It is not going anywhere, it survived the depression. Not one single municipal entity in New York has filed for Bankruptcy. The State simply will not allow it, instead it will take control of the municipal entity first as we have seen in Buffalo and Erie County and previously in New York City.

You may want to learn more about our public pension instead of relying on the circumstance of other systems: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...HoovvrWYH7jMsA

That is all well and good but there are more than a few fringe economists predicting a major crash worse than the Great Depression. No country in the history of the world is more in debt and overlevereged than the US right now. There is no such entity as a crash proof system. I could go on to give specific inidcators that have some financial analysts worried if you wish. Just one bubble in a few states caused so much havoc, now we have several bubbles. The stock market is not an indicator of economic health. It is a bet made on an expectation. The people that shape monetary policy such as the Fed haven't a clue. Just look at Bernanke's statements prior to 08. Seriously, Dan it's a big fat Ponzi.

What is unfolding has already happened on a small scale. Germany in 1921 starts one such example. There are always consequences to actions some which do not manifest until years later. Nixon gave the federal government a blank check after 1971. Endless credit doesn't work forever.

[WNYresident]

401k's or let employees manage their own retirement. .... a piece of property shouldn't be attached to bad contract negotiations. The property is what is attached to the contract not a person. How do we know this? Net tax payers are fleeing NYS but the property they left is still on the hook for the highest property taxes for the most part in the USA. Correct?

[WSFirst]

That is all well and good but there are more than a few fringe economists predicting a major crash worse than the Great Depression. No country in the history of the world is more in debt and overlevereged than the US right now. There is no such entity as a crash proof system. I could go on to give specific inidcators that have some financial analysts worried if you wish. Just one bubble in a few states caused so much havoc, now we have several bubbles. The stock market is not an indicator of economic health. It is a bet made on an expectation. The people that shape monetary policy such as the Fed haven't a clue. Just look at Bernanke's statements prior to 08. Seriously, Dan it's a big fat Ponzi.

What is unfolding has already happened on a small scale. Germany in 1921 starts one such example. There are always consequences to actions some which do not manifest until years later. Nixon gave the federal government a blank check after 1971. Endless credit doesn't work forever.

This is a Ponzi scheme. The collapse is coming, no matter what constitutions/charter/contract says. You really think nys will continue to pay $50k+ a month to retirees while the economy tanks, the number of food stamps increases? Come on.

Dtwarren, you still skipped over my question just went back to insulting me which I figured you would.

Why was Evans a moderate stress level but needed a loan? only a 5 month gap between the release of the report and the emergency loan

[WSFirst]

401k's or let employees manage their own retirement. .... a piece of property shouldn't be attached to bad contract negotiations. The property is what is attached to the contract not a person. How do we know this? Net tax payers are fleeing NYS but the property they left is still on the hook for the highest property taxes for the most part in the USA. Correct?

There should be no such thing as a government pension, promises made to each other so they can win elections.
Just keep raising taxes. The tax payers can always have thousands MORE taken from their retirements to give to the wealthy, as young as 40 to 50 year old, "retirees." Soon enough it will all come crumbling down.

The use of accounting gimmicks that are designed to shift costs onto future generations — an approach outlawed for private pension plans and rejected by both public and private plans in Canada and Europe. Lawmakers, acting in their political self-interest, who have catered to the past demands of government unions to enrich their members’ benefits while passing the costs onto future generations. A broken governance structure where public pension board members are actually penalized in tangible ways for acting responsibly, and are rewarded by choosing to delay the day of reckoning.

[dtwarren]

Dtwarren, you still skipped over my question just went back to insulting me which I figured you would.

Its there, you failed to comprehend it:

years of borrowing and refusing to raise taxes as needed to address financial mismanagement

The loan was made less than a month before a new budget went into effect that raised taxes based on a more accurate picture of their financial condition than what they did before.

[WSFirst]

Its there, you failed to comprehend it:



The loan was made less than a month before a new budget went into effect that raised taxes based on a more accurate picture of their financial condition than what they did before.

Ah, back to the insults. Can you respond and be nice or are you the online bully?

The stress level and the new budget have zero correlation. The report is flawed because they didn't know the real problems within the town.

[Save Us]

This is a Ponzi scheme. The collapse is coming, no matter what constitutions/charter/contract says. You really think nys will continue to pay $50k+ a month to retirees while the economy tanks, the number of food stamps increases? Come on.

Dtwarren, you still skipped over my question just went back to insulting me which I figured you would.

Why was Evans a moderate stress level but needed a loan? only a 5 month gap between the release of the report and the emergency loan

Complicated legal jargon promising this or that in a contract doesn't mean sh$t when you default. Even secured creditors don't get jack when when you are insolvent. You become a shareholder to newly created worthless stock with an empty promise of any return. You can't inflate the monetary system without diminishing wealth. look no further than the worry Trump created when he threatened to withhold money to sanctuary cities. We can either default or continue to print our way out... defaulting means voiding a contract on national level. Printing means your purchasing power is robbed at some point. Most people have no idea of the relationship that exists between the fed, the treasury and the central banks. its all a big fat scam.

[WSFirst]

Complicated legal jargon promising this or that in a contract doesn't mean sh$t when you default. Even secured creditors don't get jack when when you are insolvent. You become a shareholder to newly created worthless stock with an empty promise of any return. You can't inflate the monetary system without diminishing wealth. look no further than the worry Trump created when he threatened to withhold money to sanctuary cities. We can either default or continue to print our way out... defaulting means voiding a contract on national level. Printing means your purchasing power is robbed at some point. Most people have no idea of the relationship that exists between the fed, the treasury and the central banks. its all a big fat scam.

I agree. If I am a town, state, village, or a city I'm pushing for a bankruptcy to restructure its debt and future payments. Get out of these bad deals, past politicians made.

[dtwarren]

And I predict you will never understand this issue.

The Town of Evans issue was a result of poor budgeting based on poor financial records ( https://www.osc.state.ny.us/localgov...2016/evans.pdf ) and years of borrowing and refusing to raise taxes as needed to address financial mismanagement that dated back nearly a decade. It would not have filed bankruptcy and the State would have put in a control board prior to that in any event.

Ah, back to the insults. Can you respond and be nice or are you the online bully?

The stress level and the new budget have zero correlation. The report is flawed because they didn't know the real problems within the town.

Please explain what you see as the difference between the two statements in bold above, if any.

Thanks!

[grump]

WSFirst, I haven't bothered to check but are that many retirees getting pensions in excess of $50,000 a month? From what I know about the state pension, a monthly payment of that amount would've required a very high annual salary indeed.

[WSFirst]

WSFirst, I haven't bothered to check but are that many retirees getting pensions in excess of $50,000 a month? From what I know about the state pension, a monthly payment of that amount would've required a very high annual salary indeed.

Absolutely. First thing I would do is outsource as much as possible. For the life of me, I can't figure out why little towns need their own police but you can kick the can only so far.

Illinois will be interesting to see if they will be allowed to declare bankruptcy. I hope for the taxpayers they can declare bankruptcy and slash those pension payments by 90%. Pennsylvania is going towards 401k. Unfortunately for NY, the governor is gearing up for a 2020 run in my opinion.

I'm getting the popcorn ready for the riots and pitchforks.

[Save Us]

Absolutely. First thing I would do is outsource as much as possible. For the life of me, I can't figure out why little towns need their own police but you can kick the can only so far.

Illinois will be interesting to see if they will be allowed to declare bankruptcy. I hope for the taxpayers they can declare bankruptcy and slash those pension payments by 90%. Pennsylvania is going towards 401k. Unfortunately for NY, the governor is gearing up for a 2020 run in my opinion.

I'm getting the popcorn ready for the riots and pitchforks.

We are just starting to see an unraveling, years of fiscal mismangement with other economic factors.. result in default. Most people cannot see this because they think government will have the answer and come to the rescue. The problem is that government itself is on life support is in no condition to save anything. Too many bubbles, too many insolvent systems, too much spending, too much borrowing....

Anybody that can tie their own shoes should be able to see this coming. A lot of people that were promised things are going to be dissapointed as hell.