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Thread: NY is #11

  1. #16
    WSFirst
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    Quote Originally Posted by grump View Post
    WS First, Calpers was caught as being one of the least effective public pension systems in the country. They blamed everyone under the sun for the systemic problems caused by mismanagement and they sued everyone in sight, using the courts and a friendly press to extort money from other entities to cover their own mismanagement.
    But it's actually not near as bad as Illinois or Dallas.

    Would be interesting to see the market crash and how much everyone panics?

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by WSFirst View Post
    But it's actually not near as bad as Illinois or Dallas.

    Would be interesting to see the market crash and how much everyone panics?
    I am more concerned about debt bubbles...

  3. #18
    WSFirst
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    Quote Originally Posted by Save Us View Post
    I am more concerned about debt bubbles...
    Which one goes first? College or auto?

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by WSFirst View Post
    Which one goes first? College or auto?
    I predict the government debt bubble will go first which will make all the others look like the proverbial Sunday school picnic. It took just one bubble in 08 to bring the house down. I won't even get into fraction reserve cliffs, consumer debt and derivatives.

  5. #20
    WSFirst
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    Quote Originally Posted by Save Us View Post
    I predict the government debt bubble will go first which will make all the others look like the proverbial Sunday school picnic. It took just one bubble in 08 to bring the house down. I won't even get into fraction reserve cliffs, consumer debt and derivatives.
    I'd love to be in the meeting where they tell current employees and retirees, your pension is gone and they reply "but but we have a contract!,"

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by WSFirst View Post
    I'd love to be in the meeting where they tell current employees and retirees, your pension is gone and they reply "but but we have a contract!,"
    It's already happening. This where mathematics crosses stupidity and greed on an X Y axis

  7. #22
    WSFirst
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    Quote Originally Posted by Save Us View Post
    It's already happening. This where mathematics crosses stupidity and greed on an X Y axis
    Yes but the money is currently still flowing. Now when employees continue to retire and no one is dying at the same pace that creates a logjam. You can already see people living longer and people are still retiring. Wait till the market crashes, good luck to the governor when this happens. If at all possible, push for a payout, get the money out if you can.

    1. Auto bubble
    2. Commercial real estate
    3. Government bubble

    Which one goes first?

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by WSFirst View Post
    I'd love to be in the meeting where they tell current employees and retirees, your pension is gone and they reply "but but we have a contract!,"
    They have more than a contract Article V, § 7 of the N.Y. Constitution establishes a contractual relationship between the employee and the retirement system in which benefits cannot be diminished or impaired.
    “We in America do not have government by the majority. We have government by the majority who participate.” ― Thomas Jefferson

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by dtwarren View Post
    They have more than a contract Article V, § 7 of the N.Y. Constitution establishes a contractual relationship between the employee and the retirement system in which benefits cannot be diminished or impaired.
    What about an emergency constitutional amendment? Bankruptcy? Just like Connecticut, you can only get so much out of a populace before they leave. You can satisfy debits by levying taxes, borrowing (bonds) , or negotiation. Take your pick. From where I stand things aren't looking so good for anyone.

    It's just a matter of where you are in the Ponzi cycle.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by WSFirst View Post
    Yes but the money is currently still flowing. Now when employees continue to retire and no one is dying at the same pace that creates a logjam. You can already see people living longer and people are still retiring. Wait till the market crashes, good luck to the governor when this happens. If at all possible, push for a payout, get the money out if you can.

    1. Auto bubble
    2. Commercial real estate
    3. Government bubble

    Which one goes first?
    The reliance on the Federal government from other bubbles collapsing.. and they always do will be the catalyst, or the government has an untennable debt ceiling crises.

  11. #26
    WSFirst
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    Quote Originally Posted by Save Us View Post
    What about an emergency constitutional amendment? Bankruptcy? Just like Connecticut, you can only get so much out of a populace before they leave. You can satisfy debits by levying taxes, borrowing (bonds) , or negotiation. Take your pick. From where I stand things aren't looking so good for anyone.

    It's just a matter of where you are in the Ponzi cycle.
    Glad we agree that's a Ponzi scheme. Best thing for the towns, cities, and states is to declare bankruptcy. It's going to get ugly, if the current and former employees think the gravy train with continue, best wishes to them

  12. #27
    Member dtwarren's Avatar
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    First of all the New York State Employee Retirement System has existed since 1921 and is one of the most well funded in the Country. It is not going anywhere, it survived the depression. Not one single municipal entity in New York has filed for Bankruptcy. The State simply will not allow it, instead it will take control of the municipal entity first as we have seen in Buffalo and Erie County and previously in New York City.

    You may want to learn more about our public pension instead of relying on the circumstance of other systems: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...HoovvrWYH7jMsA
    “We in America do not have government by the majority. We have government by the majority who participate.” ― Thomas Jefferson

  13. #28
    WSFirst
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    Quote Originally Posted by dtwarren View Post
    First of all the New York State Employee Retirement System has existed since 1921 and is one of the most well funded in the Country. It is not going anywhere, it survived the depression. Not one single municipal entity in New York has filed for Bankruptcy. The State simply will not allow it, instead it will take control of the municipal entity first as we have seen in Buffalo and Erie County and previously in New York City.

    You may want to learn more about our public pension instead of relying on the circumstance of other systems: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...HoovvrWYH7jMsA
    You don't think any village/town will declare bankruptcy in the next few years? I'm guessing Potsdam or Akron will be racing to be the first or does NY bail the above mentioned.

    A lot of towns are already financially stressed.

    2016 - record number of brick and mortar bankruptcies, seven more chains on the brink. I think we're at 22 already, could end up at 30 by the end of the year.

    With the Auto and commercial real estate bubbles popping shortly, it's going to be ugly. Lots of scars but the Ponzi scheme pension checks will keep coming

  14. #29
    Member dtwarren's Avatar
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    No, I do not think so.

    Being fiscally stressed is not the same as meeting the insolvency requirement for Chapter 9 Bankruptcy.
    “We in America do not have government by the majority. We have government by the majority who participate.” ― Thomas Jefferson

  15. #30
    WSFirst
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    Quote Originally Posted by dtwarren View Post
    No, I do not think so.

    Being fiscally stressed is not the same as meeting the insolvency requirement for Chapter 9 Bankruptcy.
    If you can't pay the bills, you'll be insolvent and no choice to declare bankruptcy to be able to renegotiate the debt.

    Akron or Potsdam will be the first, not sure who will be first, I think Potsdam just because of suny Potsdam continues to buy up land, the tax base is shrinking.

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