Tesla/SolarCity shores up cash flow

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

Power buyback has nothing to do with it. You can't oversize your Solar System and get the state and federal grants. It has to be sized to your needs. If you want more than that you will pay 100% out of pocket for the additional capacity.

Did not know that. Makes sense.

[Jeff]

I like charts. Very cool.

What I don't have is something to compare my usage to my generation other than he monthly meter statement. I have been holding off on installing a Sense. Its really more a geeky thing than anything else. More charts. But I would like to know what the largest energy offenders in my house are so I can optimize further.

[jennifer7]

Remember when Cheektowaga installed solar panel street lights ? Solar Panels are suppose to have a life span of 15 to 20 years and then they need to be replaced
and solar panels degenerate every year producing less & less power every year.

[steven]

It doesn't work in Arizona because your government bent over for energy suppliers and struck down net metering. Now instead of Solar producers getting equal price for the power they produce and send back into the grid, they get an arbitrary percentage set on what the power companies save by not building new infrastructure. IE, way less than retail.......

Also, solar producers cannot "bank" their net energy anymore from this legislation. It very much undervalues home owner install solar generation...

This is so interesting. Can you make the switch to the power pack with the system you have now?

[Jeff]

This is so interesting. Can you make the switch to the power pack with the system you have now?

I'm guessing you mean local storage, like the Tesla Power wall? Yeah, it would require some additional electrical work, but it could be easily done. I really would only consider that if NY changes its Netmetering laws.

[Jeff]

Remember when Cheektowaga installed solar panel street lights ? Solar Panels are suppose to have a life span of 15 to 20 years and then they need to be replaced
and solar panels degenerate every year producing less & less power every year.

1. I have no idea what you are talking about with solar lights in Cheektowaga.
2. 1.5 - 2% degradation every year, resulting in about 80% of the original capacity after 25 - 30 years. They still work fine. This is the current industry standard. In 30 years, I'll be happy to upgrade to the latest technology. A good installer will tell you this upfront.

[WNYresident]

Interesting comments.

Rich Glendenning It makes me so happy seeing all the comments on here of people realizing just how full of **** this video is. As someone who has worked in this field for years, don't fall for this. There are nearly countless reasons why a solar system like this is just a bad idea. Wait a decade or so for the tech to improve. You can thank me later, I'll wait.
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Matthew Kimbrough
Matthew Kimbrough Wow, you think you can list at least 5 of these so called "countless" reasons? I mean otherwise, you're just a hater spewing **** out of your keyboard.
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Rich Glendenning
Rich Glendenning 1. The fact that they're mounted directly to the roof means they are incredibly susceptible to overheating, reducing their overall efficiency.

2. These tiles use different types of silicon than traditional solar panels making them even less efficient.

3. The warranty they say they're offering isn't nearly as "infinite" as they claim it to be meaning, they only offer a 30 year power production warranty, so when you're fancy roof tiles stop pumping out power, instead of just unbolting the racking system or replacing panels on their own you have to pay to redo your entire roof.

4. These roofing tile systems are drastically more expensive than traditional panels and mounting systems, despite what they claim. Because of the increased cost and the reduction in your efficiency the return on investment for a system like theirs isn't even remotely worth it. Again, unlike traditional panels and mounting systems.

5. Because there's so many tiles this means that there has to be a wall mounted inverter (unless there's incredibly small micro-inverters in the tiles themselves to convert the out put of electricity to AC, which I highly doubt) again because of this system design it means it won't have the ability to perform something called "power point tracking" further reducing the efficiency of the system as a whole. Power point tracking means that at every moment of the day the panels are producing the absolute maximum amount of energy they possibly can. This is done with micro-inverters. Also with a micro-inverter system it's far easier to troubleshoot a malfunctioning panel, or even a specific cell on a panel because many micro-inverter systems connect to your WiFi enabling the installation company and the homeowner to keep tabs on their power production, efficiency and if they're not working properly throughout the life of the entire system.
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Rich Glendenning
Rich Glendenning Also I should point out that the 30 year power production warranty they offer is about the same as literally every other mid to high end solar panel manufacturer offers. So you're essentially paying more to receive less and people like you just eat it ...See More
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Rich Glendenning
Rich Glendenning Tech*
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Ozan Cem Sımsık
Ozan Cem Sımsık Another fanboy disappeared into oblivion. Let's wait for him to rise from the abyss to defend another one of his beloved brands blindly on a different comment section.
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Renee' Wilkins
Renee' Wilkins What system do you recommend Rich Glendenning
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Rich Glendenning
Rich Glendenning Renee' Wilkins It's really all about what you want from your system. If you're looking to get off the grid then you're going to need a nice sized system with an even bigger battery back up to offer you however many days of autonomy you're looking for. ...See More
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Rich Glendenning
Rich Glendenning Sean McDonald I'm not saying solar isn't a good idea. With you being in Australia of all places it makes absolutely perfect sense to have solar power and even solar hot water. You have some of the most consistent sunshine of anywhere on earth. I just w...See More
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Rich Glendenning
Rich Glendenning Roof*
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Sean McDonald
Sean McDonald So the problem lies in making a solar panel roof rather than solar power panel its self?
Is installing current solar tech actually well, not so much worth it but perhaps 'useful'. There has been an explosion of panels being installed and i have heard ...See More
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Rich Glendenning
Rich Glendenning Sean McDonald Yes, right now the problem with solar panel shingles (like the ones in the video) is that they do not perform nearly as well as the rectangular solar panels that people are more familiar with. You're also correct about the energy compani...See More
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Pratyay Amrit
Pratyay Amrit This is a very informative thread. Thanks Rich!
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Rich Glendenning
Rich Glendenning Absolutely! Always glad to help. It's no use to have all this info in my head if I can't share it with people.
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Ryan Hunt
Ryan Hunt Where is the new solar technology? I have watched tv shows and read articles talking about some lab that just came out with better cells. It looks like everything out now is the same 20+ year old stuff.
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Rich Glendenning
Rich Glendenning Ryan Hunt it is pretty much the same. There have been a few new experimental materials developed in the last few years that are looking pretty promising as far as replacing silicone​. But the biggest reason why there hasn't been a huge jump in the effi...See More
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Rich Glendenning
Rich Glendenning Most of the advancement has been in the secondary components of the systems, not the panels themselves. Meaning inverters, micro-inverters, mounting systems and batteries. With further advancement in all those areas solar will become a far more effective method of power production. Ryan Hunt
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Cedric Daniel Zumwalt
Cedric Daniel Zumwalt Well I have had solar for several years now, Both photovoltaic and passive. So I testify that you sir, are in error. It has saved me a lot of money. Granted, I did the installation work myself and the research on the passive solar heating was lengthy. Well worth it all in the end.
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Rich Glendenning
Rich Glendenning Cedric Daniel Zumwalt what exactly is it that I'm in error of? I'm talking specifically about the solar roof shingles not being as efficient as normal solar panels which is just a verifiable fact.
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Rich Glendenning
Rich Glendenning I think you may have misconstrued some of the information I've provided here.
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Cedric Daniel Zumwalt
Cedric Daniel Zumwalt Rich Glendenning Efficient as what? No cells at all, just heat absorbing roof shingles? You sir are like the Conestoga wagon maker telling everyone to avoid the Model T ford because it is not perfected.
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Rich Glendenning
Rich Glendenning Cedric Daniel ZumwaltSir, I'm going to have to stop you there because you and I are talking about to completely different things. You're talking about passive solar thermal as far as I can tell. I'm talking about solar panels and the solar panel SHINGL...See More
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Rich Glendenning
Rich Glendenning A good general rule of thumb in life is "don't buy the first version of anything". I say this because there is only so much laboratory testing that can be done before real life feedback is needed to help improve the design, functionality and efficiency...See More
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Adrian Aldinger
Adrian Aldinger My grandmother has some of the normal solar panels on her roof.. she used to pay 200 to 300 a month in electricity.. but now pays only 9 dollars a month. Her monthly payments for the panels themselves along with the 9 dollars a month are way cheaper than what her normal electric bill was.. solar has paid off well for her.. don't doubt solar technology till you ACTUALLY know what you're talking about.
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Rich Glendenning
Rich Glendenning That's the point I'm making. Normal solar panels are great
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Güner Soy
Güner Soy What you miss is the fact that it's not just about the price. If so, people would prefer a chinese smartphone instead of an iphone, or chinese earpods instead of apple earpods, or the indian Tata car instead of a Tesla and so on, people want added valu...See More
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Jenny Patterson
Jenny Patterson In 7-10 years... it will be so much cheaper.
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Rich Glendenning
Rich Glendenning People can want whatever they want. Many people just aren't fully informed before they make these decisions.
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[steven]

Tesla solar roof prices come in cheaper than some had expected

Tesla said Wednesday that the first two styles of its solar roof will be priced at about $21.85 per square foot.

That price is slightly lower than the $24.50 per square foot that Consumer Reports had expected. Their prediction had been based on Tesla achieving a competitive price to conventional roofing materials, such as asphalt, once savings from electricity bills were factored in over the roof's expected lifetime.

Many had expressed skepticism that Tesla's product would be as affordable as the company claimed. But after the release of the pricing, Tesla shares closed up more than 1 percent Wednesday.

Tesla said it is releasing the first two styles of the glass tiles — "black glass smooth" and "textured" versions — out of the four planned styles the company has shown off to the public.

A curved, reddish "Tuscan" style and a style that resembles slate rock tiles are expected "in early 2018," according to Tesla.

The shingles have three layers — a high-efficiency solar cell, a specially designed film to mask the cell from viewers on the ground, and a top layer of tempered glass. Tesla has said it will sell the roof alongside other products, such as
its Powerwall wall battery.
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/10/tesla...-expected.html

[Genoobie]

It doesn't work in Arizona because your government bent over for energy suppliers and struck down net metering. Now instead of Solar producers getting equal price for the power they produce and send back into the grid, they get an arbitrary percentage set on what the power companies save by not building new infrastructure. IE, way less than retail.......

Also, solar producers cannot "bank" their net energy anymore from this legislation. It very much undervalues home owner install solar generation...

No you misunderstand. That's the free market and capitalism at work. If your company has enough cash to influence law that's just capitalism.

[grump]

No you misunderstand. That's the free market and capitalism at work. If your company has enough cash to influence law that's just capitalism.

Or if your labor union has enough cash to influence law. Kinda like NYSUT & AFT.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

The warranty they say they're offering isn't nearly as "infinite" as they claim it to be meaning, they only offer a 30 year power production warranty, so when you're fancy roof tiles stop pumping out power, instead of just unbolting the racking system or replacing panels on their own you have to pay to redo your entire roof.

Interesting comments.

This one is a very good point. Lifetime warranty on the roof itself but only 30 years on the power effectively makes it a 30 year warranty.

With an average roof being 1,500 sf @ $21.85 per square foot that's $32,775. Over 30 years that's $1092 a year or $91 a month. It's a good chunk of change for sure but most people spend $90/month on electric anyways now. Who knows how much it will cost in 25 years....

[WNYresident]

No you misunderstand. That's the free market and capitalism at work. If your company has enough cash to influence law that's just capitalism.

Government got involved. That really isn't free market and capitalism at work.

[WNYresident]

This one is a very good point. Lifetime warranty on the roof itself but only 30 years on the power effectively makes it a 30 year warranty.

With an average roof being 1,500 sf @ $21.85 per square foot that's $32,775. Over 30 years that's $1092 a year or $91 a month. It's a good chunk of change for sure but most people spend $90/month on electric anyways now. Who knows how much it will cost in 25 years....

Are they taking average power generation or realistic power generation based on location.

I asked my bean counter what our average home electric bill is. I was handed a chart with the last 9 electric bills. Our average home electric bill is $77.35.

[Jeff]

Are they taking average power generation or realistic power generation based on location.

I asked my bean counter what our average home electric bill is. I was handed a chart with the last 9 electric bills. Our average home electric bill is $77.35.

My installer was basing my output based on location and 30+ years of weather data.

My average monthly electric Bill was between 140 - 170 depending on weather and AC usage and the kids leaving the damn lights on .

My Bill with the panel financing is now exactly 102.75 every month. If rates go up as NG is trying to have happen, I would be insulated from that. I also added a Hot Tub last year that runs year round and I am still coming out on top.

[Jeff]

This one is a very good point. Lifetime warranty on the roof itself but only 30 years on the power effectively makes it a 30 year warranty.

With an average roof being 1,500 sf @ $21.85 per square foot that's $32,775. Over 30 years that's $1092 a year or $91 a month. It's a good chunk of change for sure but most people spend $90/month on electric anyways now. Who knows how much it will cost in 25 years....

I had thought that not every shingle was a solar panel. Perhaps only the power producing panels would need to be replaced?

Also, again, its not as if after 30 years they just stop working. The output is just reduced.