What would it take?

[res4life]

So as my name suggests, I've been a lancaster Resident my whole life. I know all the local town and village politicians personally, in various degrees, and am appalled at how a little power has corrupted good people.

Now my loyalties lie with this great town and village not with any one person, so what would it take to get them out?

What message would a politician running for office have to put forth to convince the community at large that the current path is not the correct one?

Lancaster village and town elected officials have run primarily unopposed the last few elections because people either like the way things are run or don't think they can be beat. How can we change the average voters mind on both of these?

Res

[4248]

One way might be to educate the newer residents on the floodplain issues that will affect many of them in the future. The eventual cost of roads , sewers and water systems that are like time bombs all over town.

People vote party lines - they don really care about your issues - they care about the issues fed to them by the media or their "Party leaders."

They only care when it hits their own pocket book. You have to inform/educate them with facts of these long term issues being created by short sighted - self serving politicians currently exploiting Lancaster.

Expose/educate the residents about lawyers who profit from land deals that leave the future tax burden for the home owners. Put out flyer's , not just in election years. Organize those people of like minds and buy space in the Lancaster Bee (i don't work for them- they are cheaper than the B.News).

Organize open house campaigns - when a new sub division starts to show homes for sale - educate the new prospective owners with friendly flyer's and articles in the paper about the flood areas within those developments.

Don't stop once they are approved. That should only be the beginning of your educational campaign. Then and only then will it affect the Town Boards thinking , as well as developers and voters.

Education - not Town Board confrontation!

They want you to come sit at the meetings while their friends are busy bulldozing another wetlands.

[res4life]

Well it's been over a week and so far, one reply.

I guess it goes to show that for all the belly-aching so many of you do, when it comes to actually taking action, you fall flat.

There are people who love to debate, just to argue and feel more important and then there are people who actually debate to try and get things done. It seems as though the people on this message board are more interested in _feeling_ important than actually doing something to _BE_ important.

Res4Life

[Harry Applesack]

Maybe you and Bullitt are in the minority feeling that the current course is the wrong one.

[res4life]

Harry

Excellent Point. I read all the posts around here and assumed that it was the majority speaking. I was wrong. All in all, I think people are happy with life in Lancaster.

Sure the Transit Rd and Central Ave traffic congestion is a pain and taxes are an easy target but maybe people _are_ happy with the current situation.

It's alwasy the most obvious conclusion that takes the longest to reach

Res

[pudge]

res4life wrote:

Excellent Point. I read all the posts around here and assumed that it was the majority speaking. I was wrong. All in all, I think people are happy with life in Lancaster.

Yes indeed, the great majority of people love living in Lancaster. However, that does not preclude that there are issues in Lancaster that a lot of these same residents would like to see addressed.

If you have the means to pay skyrocketing property and school taxes, own a beautiful new home in a quieter subdivision (especially on a cul-de-sac which eliminates traffic coming through your subdivision street because there are not enough major roads in the town) and don't live in a filled in wetland with flooding and drainage issues life is great.

On the other hand, other life-long residents in the Town of Lancaster, or the two Villages within the town, may not be as fortunate and have watched the town of Lancaster grow into something other than they had been bred in.

They have watched their roads become overburdened; their property assessments (most likely on more modest homes than what's being built today) rise significantly, resulting in property and school taxes; experienced low water pressure issues that also impacts fire safety; experience more flooding and drainage issues from waters being pushed by new developments to the east and have watched greenspace and wetlands disappear for developer profit and town tax revenues.

Under the Giza administration, the goal is to build out the town. There is nothing wrong with that as long as the growth is accompanied with the necessary associated road, infrastructure and school improvementsl

Sewer and water system shortfalls are now being addressed. They should have been acted upon 4 years ago when the public pointed out low water pressure issues at that time. It would have happened at near half the cost as now. However, the public was told by Mr. Giza that there were no water pressure issues in the town at that time.

The great majority of people do bitch a lot, but unfortunately, do nothing about it for many reasons: apathy, fear of intimidation, the good outweighs the bad, or fear of expressing a view that runs counter to traditional thinking and/or political claptrap.

By the way res4life, it wasn't cool to bait and switch like that.

Pudge

[therising]

Hey Pudge

About a week ago, you gave me a hard time for stating that Residential growth, as oppposed to commercial, was the root of the problems...

Will you take a look at what you wrote....can you tell me that these problems are not caused by uncontrolled residential growth??

Thanks for confirming what I wrote, but I still don't know why you thought you disagreed with me.

If you have the means to pay skyrocketing property and school taxes, own a beautiful new home in a quieter subdivision (especially on a cul-de-sac which eliminates traffic coming through your subdivision street because there are not enough major roads in the town) and don't live in a filled in wetland with flooding and drainage issues life is great.

On the other hand, other life-long residents in the Town of Lancaster, or the two Villages within the town, may not be as fortunate and have watched the town of Lancaster grow into something other than they had been bred in.

They have watched their roads become overburdened; their property assessments (most likely on more modest homes than what's being built today) rise significantly, resulting in property and school taxes; experienced low water pressure issues that also impacts fire safety; experience more flooding and drainage issues from waters being pushed by new developments to the east and have watched greenspace and wetlands disappear for developer profit and town tax revenues.

Under the Giza administration, the goal is to build out the town. There is nothing wrong with that as long as the growth is accompanied with the necessary associated road, infrastructure and school improvementsl

Sewer and water system shortfalls are now being addressed. They should have been acted upon 4 years ago when the public pointed out low water pressure issues at that time. It would have happened at near half the cost as now. However, the public was told by Mr. Giza that there were no water pressure issues in the town at that time.


Pudge

[res4life]

I don't think I did a bait and switch. I made a conclusion based on the response to a serious inquiry.

Take a look at the 29 replies to a bogus story on the town attorney. Even after it was "outed" as a fake story, people are still replying.

I had a serious question that hit at the heart all the rants around here. "What would it take to make a difference?" I got one reply. So (what I consider a)logical assumption is that there is a lot of hot air but overall not a lot of force behind the need to change.

Pudge, you start off saying:"Yes indeed, the great majority of people love living in Lancaster. "

and finish off sayinng" The great majority of people do bitch a lot, but unfortunately, do nothing about it for many reasons: apathy, fear of intimidation, the good outweighs the bad, or fear of expressing a view that runs counter to traditional thinking and/or political claptrap."

Some people would say those two opinions contradict themselves: Are the great majority happy or do they bitch alot? I concur that they support themselves fully. People bitch alot and that makes them happy.

In the end, maybe all these _HUGE_ problems really don't concern too many people or as you state, they don't feel they can do anything to change it. Maybe we don't care that much about the people in our town/village who don't live in our little neighborhood. Hey if it's NIMBY, they who cares?

I'm sorry I don't have more answers, it seems just more questions.

MM

[pudge]

Hey Rising, welcome back!

We totally agree on the adverse impacts of uncontrolled growth in the town over the last two decades.

However, I tend to believe that the town should have done a better job when developing the recent master plan. With all the residential development that has taken place, the demographic center of the town is moving east, and yet all the retail and restaurant development is taking place in the west end of town, taxing our already overburdened roads with even more customers having to travel them to get to that end of town.

When Wal-Mart was offered a 50-acre parcel of land on Broadway, east of Bowen, they spurned the sale offer by telling the property owner, “no thanks, the corner of Transit and William is where we want to be, and where we will be.” They were not as interested in serving Lancaster residents as they were in serving themselves. And, the town made every attempt to help them with their plan.

It is also strongly believed that if and when that store opens at Transit and William, the store in Cheektowaga will be closed.

Cheektowaga politics is no different. Target was announced to go in where they are presently located and the neighboring residents were up in arms – primarily for traffic congestion concerns (them damn NIMBY’s). The project sponsor then proposed a Delta Sonic that would have been a 24/7 operation and would have brought air pollution concerns as well. The residents disliked this project even more. The Target was brought back to life, the residents now complained less and God (Town of Cheektowaga) declared, “What a good boy am I!”

When the town of Lancaster “approved” its master plan several years ago, they advocated that businesses should be scattered around town to better serve the public residing nearby. Have you seen any of that taking place since the announcement and/or development of the big boxes took place?

I too believe in free market principles, when the competition is fair and balanced. In my opinion, it is not. And unfortunately, that’s the way it’s going to be. Perhaps the towns are unable to attract or sustain smaller businesses and have to whore themselves out to the big guys, but that doesn’t mean I, or anyone else, have to like what’s happening to their town.

Once again, that’s my opinion. If you are of the mind that any development, regardless of cost to the community or the environment is okay as long as it brings revenue to the town’s coffers, you are entitled to voice that opinion.

pudge

[4248]

Bait & switch ! Misleading posts ! Pretending to post factual replies ! Self serving issues ! Discrediting others instead of offering assistance ! Acting like "kids in a sand box."

Who are you to judge or pretend to know the thoughts or reasons for residents actions or inactions. Your actions (posts&replies) have degraded the perceived honesty of issues posted.

Maybe your not getting much response because you take sport in ripping any new persons posts. As you guys elude to in the members only section - you guys openly brag about ripping the new contributors.

It would seem to many that if some of you post it - its not for legitimate give and take. Who wants to play your silly self mind stroking games.

Like the posts about Lancaster's Town Attorney - it is a honest true issue - and your still trying to discredit and dismiss the truth.

I don't think I did a bait and switch. I made a conclusion based on the response to a serious inquiry.

Take a look at the 29 replies to a bogus story on the town attorney. Even after it was "outed" as a fake story, people are still replying.

MM

[quote=HarryApplesack]

Originally Posted by Harry Applesack
Yes, actually it was me.

------------------------------------------------------------------------ Lancaster Town Attorney

[res4life]

Ok bullit now I am thoroughly confused.

My point in this thread was to find out what it would take for someone new to get elected; ie what kind of platform a candidate would need to run on to get elected and get some fresh blood in local politics. The lack of response to my thread lead me and others to believe that maybe things weren't soo bad after all or maybe people really didn't crave the change.

I pointed to the fake town attorney thread as evidence that some people like to debate and sensationalize _not_ for the sake of change but for the sake of conflict. I think we're on the same page there.

I guess you can just label me confused on this one

res

[pudge]

Hey res4life:

It is not a contradiction to say you like, love or are satisfied with something and not believe there is an opportunity to make that something better.

I, like many others, choose to live in Lancaster despite the region’s socio-economic decline, the inept and dysfunctional political class (where their best interests outweigh ours) and where our property taxes are outrageous. I stay because I can yet afford to stay here.

Unfortunately, many Lancaster residents are losing their economic ability to be able to pay the freight for yearly property assessment increases and the resulting skyrocketing property and school taxes. More unfortunately, these same people are being taxed to pay for government and school employee salaries, health benefits and pension programs that far exceed their own wages and benefits.

But hey, it’s a free market and there are those who can’t be bothered with second-class citizens that are unable to match their ability and market value. So, yawn, why bother? So sad, but it’s a “me world” today.

That doesn’t mean that I am content with a state and local government, and a public secto,r that is sucking the life out of our state’s ability to economically compete.

There are residents appearing at Town Board meetings on a regular basis looking for relief from one issue or another. You never get to read about that in the News or the Lancaster Bee. They only print what’s favorable to the town.

A hunter’s bullet went through a house that sits next to the Penora Woods. It could have killed someone. Did you read about it?

On a regular basis, residents appear before the Town Board looking for traffic relief on their busy subdivision streets, telling about their safety concerns for their children. They get a stop sign thrown at them, a pat on the back and told the traffic on their by-pass streets isn’t that bad. They say it’s the county’s fault that the major roads have not been approved. Yet, they continue to allow development to take place along these roads. Do you ever read about that?

The town is going to hold a public hearing on bonding for $7 to $8 million to repair and replace water lines. This should have been done several years when it would have cost half as much and would have corrected the low water pressure issues that residents came to the board and complained of, and to which the Town Supervisor and Town Engineer denied there was a low water pressure issue.

When residents complained that there was not enough water water pressure to fight a fire with, they were told they were wrong. Did you ever read anything about that?

Supervisor Giza for years said he wanted out of the water and sewer business. Some board members have seen the cost savings advantage in not making all the repairs and handing the water system to the Erie County Water Authority – like down in other municipalities where water rates increased significantly. Did you ever read anything about this?

The Town of Lancaster is a great town to live in. However, poor planning and failure to deal with accumulative negative impacts have resulted in the shortage of major roads (north-to-south and east-west), more traffic accidents, an overburdened infrastructure, destruction of greenspace and wetlands for developer and town financial gain, flooding and drainage issues and skyrocketing property and school taxes.

Changing political parties in this town has had impact for making worthwhile change. Change can only be affected by becoming informed as to what’s happening in the town, supporting those with issues other than yours and bringing to light the failures of the administration in power and demanding change. It’s a community; it’s about all of us. But the town labels anyone challenging their viewpoint as a NIMBY!

In today’s world, the only difference between a Republican and a Democrat is in the spelling.

pudge

[therising]

Hey Pudgester:

saideth you:

owever, I tend to believe that the town should have done a better job when developing the recent master plan. With all the residential development that has taken place, the demographic center of the town is moving east, and yet all the retail and restaurant development is taking place in the west end of town, taxing our already overburdened roads with even more customers having to travel them to get to that end of town.

I've never seen the master plan, so I can't really comment. However, I do know this - in order for retail to be successful it has to be clustered, not scattered.

When Wal-Mart was offered a 50-acre parcel of land on Broadway, east of Bowen, they spurned the sale offer by telling the property owner, “no thanks, the corner of Transit and William is where we want to be, and where we will be.” They were not as interested in serving Lancaster residents as they were in serving themselves. And, the town made every attempt to help them with their plan.

This is the first I've heard of this. Nevertheless, how can you blame the Town for this? WalMart said "No thank you", and you're blaming the Town? WalMart either? Where would you rather build a store, on Transit or Broadeway, east of Bowen?
Besides, as I'm sure you know. WalMart is now targeting Browadway and Three Rod Road. Perhaps that was already on their long-term plan when the other piece was offered to them.
Besides, do you really think that the area of Broadway, east of Bowen, is more suitable for a WalMart, than the corner of Transit and William?
The eastern part of Lancaster is still somewhat rural. People bought and built their homes there, because they like it that way. Can you imagine how, understandably, pissed they would be if there was suddenly a big box store in their backyards.

Now the Northwoods people at Transit and William - they're a different story. They deserve it for buying their townhomes spitting distance from Transit.

It is also strongly believed that if and when that store opens at Transit and William, the store in Cheektowaga will be closed.

Quick answer to that question is - So What?
I haven't heard that, and I'd strongly doubt it. You're talking about Thruway Plaza, I assume? When that store closes, it will only be to build a Super WalMart in the rear land (next to home depot).

I too believe in free market principles, when the competition is fair and balanced. In my opinion, it is not. And unfortunately, that’s the way it’s going to be. Perhaps the towns are unable to attract or sustain smaller businesses and have to whore themselves out to the big guys, but that doesn’t mean I, or anyone else, have to like what’s happening to their town.

You're either contradicting yourself here, or I'm just not following you?
How is the competition not fair and balanced? Do you mean because of WalMart's size?
If that's the case, then I can understand your point, but I do not agree with it.
How would you propose getting around this problem of larger businesses charging lower prices? Should there be competition police of some sort who make them raise their prices?
Do you really want the government that involved in your life?

If you are of the mind that any development, regardless of cost to the community or the environment is okay as long as it brings revenue to the town’s coffers, you are entitled to voice that opinion.

You really don't read what I write, do you?? I don't think I ever gave that impression. In fact, I've specifically alluded to problems with uncontrolled growth. But, just for the record - Yes, I would 100% label myself as a "pro-development" person, should if be necessary to label myself one way or the other.

[pudge]

Rising, Rising, come on now!

Your condescending tone and charge of contradiction and confusing thought process leads one to believe that unless they are following the gospel according to therising, they are truly out to lunch. You respect no one’s opinion but your own.

Thank you for being so frank as to admit you are pro development. Nay, you should have said pro development at any cost. When you say in your last post, “In fact, I've specifically eluded to problems with uncontrolled growth,” you have alluded all along to only “residential growth issues.”

You seem to have missed my point when I said that I do not favor any “big box” development for the Town of Lancaster – for traffic reasons and loss of small businesses that have served my area well over the years. That’s my take, live with it.

You keep focusing on Wal-Mart and that the residents of Northwood deserve what they get from the commercial development near them; that they should have known better. Do you have a vested interest in this project?

You say that the residents of Northwood deserve what they got, that they should have known better. Northwood, Eastwood and subdivisions all along William Street will be impacted by the traffic coming from the two big boxes at the Gateway site and the Aldi’s directly across the street.

Yes, they should have known better than to have trusted the town before purchasing their homes when they asked and were told that the land behind them was to stay residential zoned.

By changing the master plan to allow for commercial development to place 1000 feet east of Transit, instead of 500-feet, the Town allowed for a rezone to take place whereby a developer could use William Street, an already overburdened road as an access to the commercial properties, was a travesty.

You say: “The eastern part of Lancaster is still somewhat rural. People bought and built their homes there, because they like it that way. Can you imagine how, understandably, pissed they would be if there was suddenly a big box store in their backyards”.

But it’s not okay for taxpaying homeowners that moved just east of Transit Road 15 to 20 years ago, when that part of town was still pretty rural, to oppose “big box” developments in they’re back yards. These people are labeled NIMBY’s. Hey, maybe you are a town official. They use that line all the time when someone addresses the board on an issue that impacts their quality of life. The residents all along William Street deserved better. But what do or the town care, development is good regardless of cost to the community.

And, why is it Wal-Mart is the only big box that draws all the opposition. Lancaster, Alden, Lockport, Niagara Falls, Hamburg and now Angola residents are all uniting to oppose a business where you can buy more junk cheaper because it’s manufacture has been outsourced to foreign countries where slave wages are paid. If you are of the mind that Wal-Mart is not pond scum, a blood-sucking predator, that’s your opinion.

And spare me the crap that all their competitors do the same thing. Now they do, because Wal-Mart was the poster child for the crap that’s taking place in today’s retail world. We get junk cheaper so we can save the money for spending on their state financed employee health care, that is, those who still have jobs or small businesses, after the Wal-Mart comes in.

You say you have not heard the rumor that the Wal-Mart at the Thruway Plaza is destined to close should the one on Transit open, yet you assert that a new supercenter would be built there. You didn’t hear a rumor about the closing of the store, but you are sure it is because another will take its place. Throw enough crap on the wall and some has to stick, eh Rising?

You also ask: “Do you really want the government that involved in your life?” Absolutely not! Yet, it was my local government that made it possible for Wal-Mart to get site plan approval despite the fact that twice as many homeowners signed petitions opposing the Wal-Mart as those favoring it.

And, as for “clustering” businesses to make them successful, the Transit commercial corridor is not a clustering when compared to businesses in a mall. Now you’re really talking about one stop shopping.

You exemplify so many that are the true NIMBY’S; if it’s not in my back yard, I don’t care! Ask the homeowners in the south end of town, especially along William Street, as to where they want the Wal-Mart. They’ll tell you where to stick it!

pudge