The political class has a tax party

The local political class had their own party today, announcing Kaleida's new vascular center downtown.

PCD was there since I thought it would be nice to have a report from the point of view of those who will actually be paying for all this.

It's a $191M project and of course Kaleida, a secretive private group run by the local plutocrats, is spending mostly other people's money. The state (you) is kicking in $60 million. ECMC (you) is oddly enough lending them some big bucks. The rest is probably being borrowed. Kaleida likes to borrow money from anyone around.

So the players here are Kaleida, a private firm with a government-granted hospital monopoly; UB, ECMC, the Buffalo Medical Campus. These are all public or quasi-public entities with access to tax money, subsidized loans and various laws protecting them from competition. They can thus afford to pay themselves supra-market rates for their "services."

This is what the corporate state is all about. Competition and having to go out and earn a living in the marketplace is anathema to these well-coiffed types. That's for suckers like the greybearded sole proprietors you see at the tea parties.

This is what the political class is all about and judging from the crowd, life is good when someone else is paying the freight.

All the usual plutocrats and political class rogues gallery were there: Higgins, Volker, Stack, Brown, and Thompson.....

Will there be any market or demand for this lavish new facility? Who knows? No one there today cared to ask. They assume that the subsidies will continue to roll in forever since they have richly paid off the politicians with huge campaign donations.

And no one talked about the opportunity cost of this venture. No one there even knows what that term means, especially the local media who acted like cheerleaders as they usually do at these things.

About this Medical Campus, Simpson bragged that we "put togther in one building" various functions. That's 19th century thinking. This is the digital age when xrays are sent half way around the world and the reports comes back in 20 minutes. So we pay $191 million so researchers can bump into doctors at the water cooler?

It was noted that WNY has the highest rate of heart disease in the state. Well, what a surprise. When an area has declined for 50 straight years, people get depressed and hit the bars and comfort food pretty hard. Not to mention the lousy schools whose graduates can't distinguish between a healthy meal and junk food. The wheels of the Gods grind slowly, but they grind exceedingly fine.

To sum up, when I see the rich get richer at the expense of the working class, I like to think back to Jack Warden's line to Paul Newman in The Verdict. About the rich, he said, "How do you think they got all that money?"

(From the saps at the tea parties.)

please Rich Liberal politicians? Never! they love spending all of their money helping all those poor unfortunate souls out there!!!:rolleyes:

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And no one talked about the opportunity cost of this venture. No one there even knows what that term means, especially the local media who acted like cheerleaders as they usually do at these things.

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That sums the project up quite handily.

$60,000,000 tax payer money?

Lets see...

60,000,000 / lets say 400,000 non government workers/non government business owners who work in the private sector in Erie County = $150 a person. I don't really know how many actual non government workers/non government business owners are in Erie County so I took a stab at the number.

I don't feel I'll get $150's worth of value because they are building that building. Do you?

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Originally Posted by WNYresident

$60,000,000 tax payer money?

Lets see...

60,000,000 / lets say 400,000 non government workers/non government business owners who work in the private sector in Erie County = $150 a person. I don't really know how many actual non government workers/non government business owners are in Erie County so I took a stab at the number.

I don't feel I'll get $150's worth of value because they are building that building. Do you?

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I would put that number closer to 200K!

Does anyone actually know? how many actual non business laborers and non government businesses owners are there that would contribute to the tax base in erie county?

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Originally Posted by Jim Ostrowski

The local political class had their own party today, announcing Kaleida's new vascular center downtown.

PCD was there since I thought it would be nice to have a report from the point of view of those who will actually be paying for all this.

It's a $191M project and of course Kaleida, a secretive private group run by the local plutocrats, is spending mostly other people's money. The state (you) is kicking in $60 million. ECMC (you) is oddly enough lending them some big bucks. The rest is probably being borrowed. Kaleida likes to borrow money from anyone around.

So the players here are Kaleida, a private firm with a government-granted hospital monopoly; UB, ECMC, the Buffalo Medical Campus. These are all public or quasi-public entities with access to tax money, subsidized loans and various laws protecting them from competition. They can thus afford to pay themselves supra-market rates for their "services."

This is what the corporate state is all about. Competition and having to go out and earn a living in the marketplace is anathema to these well-coiffed types. That's for suckers like the greybearded sole proprietors you see at the tea parties.

This is what the political class is all about and judging from the crowd, life is good when someone else is paying the freight.

All the usual plutocrats and political class rogues gallery were there: Higgins, Volker, Stack, Brown, and Thompson.....

Will there be any market or demand for this lavish new facility? Who knows? No one there today cared to ask. They assume that the subsidies will continue to roll in forever since they have richly paid off the politicians with huge campaign donations.

And no one talked about the opportunity cost of this venture. No one there even knows what that term means, especially the local media who acted like cheerleaders as they usually do at these things.

About this Medical Campus, Simpson bragged that we "put togther in one building" various functions. That's 19th century thinking. This is the digital age when xrays are sent half way around the world and the reports comes back in 20 minutes. So we pay $191 million so researchers can bump into doctors at the water cooler?

It was noted that WNY has the highest rate of heart disease in the state. Well, what a surprise. When an area has declined for 50 straight years, people get depressed and hit the bars and comfort food pretty hard. Not to mention the lousy schools whose graduates can't distinguish between a healthy meal and junk food. The wheels of the Gods grind slowly, but they grind exceedingly fine.

To sum up, when I see the rich get richer at the expense of the working class, I like to think back to Jack Warden's line to Paul Newman in The Verdict. About the rich, he said, "How do you think they got all that money?"

(From the saps at the tea parties.)

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1st. It's GREAT LAKES HEALTH not

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"Kaleida"

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2. It's not

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ECMC

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, see above
3.

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"Oddly enough"

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the entity formerly known as ECMC was able to lend money to the project because Mike Young made a profit. Remember Mike Young?

4.

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all of these public or quasi-public entities

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-are providing healthcare - at least it brings in money; if you've got a problem with a tax dollars to build a vascular center perhaps you should move to a third-world country

5.

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"About this Medical Campus, Simpson bragged that we "put togther in one building" various functions. So we pay $191 million so researchers can bump into doctors at the water cooler?

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No JO, it's a little more complex than water cooler chat- I think you've got your corporations mixed up; the campus makes for accessible interaction between the STUDENTS and the researchers, hospitals and labs.

The only comment that made sense to me was the one made about heart disease, depression, chicken wings and fast food. Thank you NYS for giving us more than just "services" (as Stack says) this Vascular Institute is at least beneficial.

MDs are God!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No, just another special interest group battling the digital revolution.

It's amazing that for someone who carefully read my post, you missed the whole point.

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Originally Posted by Jim Ostrowski

MDs are God!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No, just another special interest group battling the digital revolution.

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YYYAAAWWWNNN. Everybody is apparently "just another special interest group" except for you and your posse.

Typical non-argument and false claim by Linda.

A special interest group is one that seeks to use the government to gain an advantage for themselves at the expense of others, usually all others.

On the other hand, we advocate policy changes that would tend to benefit everyone, not just us.

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Originally Posted by Jim Ostrowski

It's amazing that for someone who carefully read my post, you missed the whole point.

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I get your point - my point is that it's not a worthy target for disdain or boycott. The benefits are good for all.
Choose your policy fights carefully; there are offenders aplenty.

duplicate post

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Originally Posted by Jim Ostrowski

MDs are God!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No, just another special interest group battling the digital revolution.

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MD's have been at the forefront of the digital revolution for electronic medical record, telemedicine, digital transfers, too many to list here. get a clue

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Originally Posted by buffy

MD's have been at the forefront of the digital revolution for electronic medical record, telemedicine, digital transfers, too many to list here. get a clue

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They have, but they've been pushing it to do it THERE way, which isn't nessasary the best way! Many have also been bought by the drug companies, the insurance companies, the govt and many other groups.

To many MD's the hypicratic oath is nothing more than a joke. It's all about the $$$$!

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Originally Posted by Jim Ostrowski

Typical non-argument and false claim by Linda.

A special interest group is one that seeks to use the government to gain an advantage for themselves at the expense of others, usually all others.

On the other hand, we advocate policy changes that would tend to benefit everyone, not just us.

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The policy changes you advocate would only benefit the wealthy who afford to hire lawyers such as yourself -- and pay their own medical bills, send their kids to private schools, etc. The policy change you advocate would guarantee that the US would become a third world country in a generation.

The US became the world's economic leader and a place where my ancestors gladly fled to from Europe when my views were, more or less and imperfectly, guiding policy. That is, pre-1917.

And the wealthy do not hire me. My clients are middle class and working class and the poor.

And that happened before most kids went to a government high school.

Amazing!

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Originally Posted by Jim Ostrowski

And that happened before most kids went to a government high school.

Amazing!

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So, you want to go back to the "good old days" of pre-1917??? ROTFLMO. You do realize that somebody named Ostrowski wouldn't have been allowed into the fancy private schools you attended, right? That your father would have never been allowed to become a judge, even in Buffalo prior to WW I? Polish AND Catholic? LOL. The steel mills were the only place that welcomed them in 1917.

Maybe the reason that most kids didn't go to "a government high school" before 1917 was because most kids didn't go to high school at all. :eek: So much for another demonstration of your superior knowledge of American history. Maybe you should have gone to a government high school.

Thank God thay passed a law allowing Polish people to become judges.

The rest is bunk.

Yes, I want no global military empire, no Fed and no income tax. Government spending was ten percent. A fast growing economy raising the living standards and health of average people faster than any time in history. A highly literate nation with a rich diversity of schools and teaching techniques. That would be great. Are you referring to something else?

Let's return to the point of the post which illustrates how wealthy elites use the corporate state to live large at our expense. Any response?

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Originally Posted by Jim Ostrowski

Thank God thay passed a law allowing Polish people to become judges.

The rest is bunk.

Yes, I want no global military empire, no Fed and no income tax. Government spending was ten percent. A fast growing economy raising the living standards and health of average people faster than any time in history. A highly literate nation with a rich diversity of schools and teaching techniques. That would be great. Are you referring to something else?

Let's return to the point of the post which illustrates how wealthy elites use the corporate state to live large at our expense. Any response?

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Here's a response.

The "wealthy elites" (in this case, the people running a hospital corporation) "use the corporate state to live large at our expense" = apply for and receive tax breaks and other incentives in order to construct and operate useful health care facilities that people from inside and outside the region can use. That, in turn, employs people as lowly as a janitor right up to the head vascular surgeon in charge. These people are paid money (aka a "salary") which they then, in turn, release into the local economy by way of mortgage payments, car payments, food, clothing, and other items. Those companies that provide those goods in services also employ people and purchase goods and services, and the income they earn from this commerce is then passed on and on through the local economy.

So happy I could help.

(Also, I don't understand how or why it is mutually exclusive to work to change the underlying system, but in the meantime use it to one's advantage).

As I said at the tea party, if we understood just one simple concept--opportunity cost, we'd close most of the government down tomorrow.

This policy of corporate welfare was put into effect about fifty years in NY.

How are we doing?

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Originally Posted by Jim Ostrowski

As I said at the tea party, if we understood just one simple concept--opportunity cost, we'd close most of the government down tomorrow.

This policy of corporate welfare was put into effect about fifty years in NY.

How are we doing?

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Are you suggesting that "corporate welfare" only happens in NY?

Because your argument is basically post hoc ergo propter hoc. We instituted a "policy of corporate welfare" fifty years ago in NY, and therefore WNY is doing poorly.

But corporate welfare is very much alive and well in many other parts of the country, many of which have thrived in the last 50 years.

That's an argument the economic development bureaucrats love to make to keep their lucrative jobs.

CW was started in NY to deal with the loss of business caused by big government. It failed.

CW does not help any state just as other unwise policies such as trade barriers hurt the countries that have them.

CW helps some firms at the expense of other firms and the public and of course it helps politicians maintain power.

That's why the correct policy on CW is unilateral disarmament. If the other states want to tax their citizens so we in NY can buy cheap stuff from, say, Ohio, let them.

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Originally Posted by Jim Ostrowski

That's an argument the economic development bureaucrats love to make to keep their lucrative jobs.

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I don't really care about that and have no idea why you'd include it. But I find it fascinating how your biggest pet internet peeve is people who are discourteous to you, yet almost like clockwork, practically every response you give on the net contains some sort of direct or backhanded insult.

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CW was started in NY to deal with the loss of business caused by big government. It failed.

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Depends on how you define corporate welfare. What was the first instance of corporate welfare in the entire United States?

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CW does not help any state just as other unwise policies such as trade barriers hurt the countries that have them.

CW helps some firms at the expense of other firms and the public and of course it helps politicians maintain power.

That's why the correct policy on CW is unilateral disarmament. If the other states want to tax their citizens so we in NY can buy cheap stuff from, say, Ohio, let them.

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In which case, companies will stay away and/or flee to places that will give them tax incentive packages and cost reductions. We'll be even more barren than we are now, but darnit we'll have the moral high ground having unilaterally disarmed, with nothing to show for it.

(As an aside, I'll note you've completely ducked this).

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Originally Posted by buffalopundit

In which case, companies will stay away and/or flee to places that will give them tax incentive packages and cost reductions. We'll be even more barren than we are now, but darnit we'll have the moral high ground having unilaterally disarmed, with nothing to show for it.

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I think you've missed the point. The point is to give tax breakes to a few companies in hope they come here and attract others to follow. The point (and logical solution) is to lower taxes across the board, not just for business but for empolyees also.

Look at what a business WNY vs Dallas has to pay their workers for the same job. In Dallas not only are houses cheaper, the property taxes are 1/4th what we have here. Dallas has the competitve edge on WNY that they can pay a person 50K a year and it would be considered a GREAT paying middle class job. However here in WNY, you'd have to pay a person closer to 60K a year due to higher property, income and sales tax. Not to mention the company is paying an extra 9% (between Fica and Medicare). Additionally, With NYS health Mandates, a company in NYS pays 40 to 60% higher in HC costs then other states.