One Seneca Tower goes up for auction at 3 p.m.

One Seneca Tower goes up for auction at 3 p.m.

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The bidding at Thursday’s 3 p.m. foreclosure auction for Buffalo’s tallest office building could be a quick, non-event.The mortgage holder, LNR Partners, is widely expected to win the auction because it is owed $91 million for the 850,000-square-foot building – which is 95 percent empty – and is now worth less than $20 million, according to recent appraisals.

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http://www.buffalonews.com/business/...-3-pm-20151001


I wonder what the final price will be.


This comment was interesting.

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alan long • an hour ago

Multi-purpose building is the only possible chance for this to survive, and even then is questionable.
First few floors (where building spans out towards street) = Department Stores, a grocery store (where your purchases go down a conveyor to the parking garage below - seen it in Florida), shops, a brewery, restaurants, bowling alley, fitness center. (People living downtown need something).
Top 2 floors = visitor experience center. add glass floor panels that expand out over the building like the Sears tower in Chicago (I know not nearly as tall), a mid level restaurant and bar with great views, historical pictures/info describing the city as you walk around.
other 30 or so floors = Condos (10 floors), apartments (8 floors), Offices (6 floors), and the remaining floors TBD by people far more intelligent than me.

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One Seneca Tower sold to mortgage holder for $28 million

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One Seneca Tower has been sold, for $28 million, to the firm that held its mortgage.

The mortgage holder, LNR Partners, started off the bidding for the property at $6 million.

About 75 people were present in the tower’s auditorium for the auction.

The lender was widely expected to win the auction, because it is owed $91 million for the 850,000-square-foot building – which is 95 percent empty – and is now w

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http://www.buffalonews.com/business/...llion-20151001

One Seneca Tower developer: 'It's going to evolve'

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Washington developer Douglas Jemal is pursuing tenants for One Seneca Tower that would create "hip places" he hopes would be a draw for downtown, but has no signed leases or firm commitments in place.

Jemal on Wednesday expressed high hopes and confidence about restoring vibrancy to the 38-story office building and the area around it, without harming other buildings as some rival landlords and developers have feared.

"Creativity is what I do. Designing is what I do. I want to make sure I do it right," Jemal said. "I'm not looking to go in there and beat up the office market because I bought it so cheap. I'm looking to make a flagship location for the whole downtown. I want the water to rise for all of Buffalo."

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http://buffalonews.com/2017/08/02/do...ime=1501697312

We discover today that his grand plan for the concourse is already being downsized while still on the drawing board. The reality of western New York's decay must be finally setting in. Probably a shock to someone from an area where redevelopment takes place almost overnight as an almost organic process.

I went to the hockey game Saturday afternoon. I passed by One Empty Tower and I have to say I was impressed with progress being made on the rehabilitation, reuse, reimagining. It ought to be really something when somebody actually does some work on it...whenever the hell that is!!

It's a big empty building. When the area allows for so much sprawl you are going to have population shifts. You look at businesses that left the city to operate in buildings in the surrounding burbs. That is a shift of people including removing the revenue those workers would have created in the city of Buffalo. IE: shopping right after work and going to lunch etc.

Another reason IDA's should not be allowed. We don't need lawyers/IDA's laughing all the way to the bank for each "deal" they create.

IDA’s didn’t destroy the city of Buffalo. NFTA, EPA and Judge Curtin did that. Buffalo could’ve formed it’s own IDA had it wanted one and had it acted in time. Had Buffalo created an IDA it wouldn’t be able to organize a bake sale without paying a bundle in graft just like every development effort in the last 40 years.

Is the partnership still around? That was like the Buffalo Chamber of Commerce?

It still exists. No one can name anything it does or any of its accomplishments.

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Originally Posted by WNYresident

It's a big empty building. When the area allows for so much sprawl you are going to have population shifts. You look at businesses that left the city to operate in buildings in the surrounding burbs. That is a shift of people including removing the revenue those workers would have created in the city of Buffalo. IE: shopping right after work and going to lunch etc.

Another reason IDA's should not be allowed. We don't need lawyers/IDA's laughing all the way to the bank for each "deal" they create.

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Sprawl has nothing to do with why this tower is still empty. This tower is empty because WNY is home to a fraction of 'office employees' to what it had 40 years ago. The IDAs are not the problem either. Yes, the rob Peter to pay Paul but that's just survival. Both concepts of 'sprawl' and 'IDAs' have one commonality in that they take the focus off the real causes of the issues and instead have people focus on local issues to blame.


The reasons why this building is empty is mostly to do with the fact it's not desirable to have an office of people working in a tower in Buffalo compared to other places unless you need to.

I look at it as if cheap farmland wasn't using to make IDA subsidized office space/office parks you wouldn't have who is left in the area working away from the city. I'm ok with people doing anything they want but to keep the playing field level IDA's need to be eliminated.

Totally under stand the way businesses operate is different than 30 years ago.

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Originally Posted by WNYresident

I look at it as if cheap farmland wasn't using to make IDA subsidized office space/office parks you wouldn't have who is left in the area working away from the city. I'm ok with people doing anything they want but to keep the playing field level IDA's need to be eliminated.

Totally under stand the way businesses operate is different than 30 years ago.

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If the office parks in Amherst or Lancaster were blocked...companies would have just moved elsewhere to regions where they were not. At least the companies that are not directly tied to the region (e.g. National Fuel).

The reason I think the 'sprawl argument' is not valid in WNY is that other productive cities in the US offer both urban and suburban locations. The differences are that 1) they actually have companies moving to the area and 2) they have a desirable urban location.

For example, AXA opened an office in Charlotte with 500 employees or so. These were mostly lower-tier jobs. So they took office space in the Charlotte equivalent of Amherst. They are now looking to double down in Charlotte with another 500 jobs, but these will be for information technology, finance, legal. These jobs demand a better location, so they are looking at taking up space in a tower and bringing all 1,000 to a single campus.

The problem with WNY is that the City of Buffalo stumbled for 40 years. What Amherst did with their IDA is similar to what happens all over the US. The difference is other regions were not anchored by a dumpster fire.

It can be fixed and it's getting better. The problem is it's just starting and has a long way to go. NYC and Albany are not helping either.

Leftie, you and I have had aspects of this discussion on many threads. It’s only getting better if by that you mean that a skeleton is getting better because most of the flesh has finally decayed almost completely and it no longer smells so bad. The troubling part and the thing that will always and forever hold this area down is that the Amherst IDA and the few other successful entities are pretty much universally seen as a problem instead of a model for a solution. Western New York was circling the bowl long before Albany corruption became a daily whipping boy on the local news. In fact, local news harping on Albany helpfully serves the purposes of the local crooks by deflecting attention and blame away from things like a city council that allows any member to hold up a project in his district until suitable tribute is paid, local officials whose solution to every problem is to mulct the taxpayers for ever more money and all the rest.

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Originally Posted by grump

Leftie, you and I have had aspects of this discussion on many threads. It’s only getting better if by that you mean that a skeleton is getting better because most of the flesh has finally decayed almost completely and it no longer smells so bad. The troubling part and the thing that will always and forever hold this area down is that the Amherst IDA and the few other successful entities are pretty much universally seen as a problem instead of a model for a solution. Western New York was circling the bowl long before Albany corruption became a daily whipping boy on the local news. In fact, local news harping on Albany helpfully serves the purposes of the local crooks by deflecting attention and blame away from things like a city council that allows any member to hold up a project in his district until suitable tribute is paid, local officials whose solution to every problem is to mulct the taxpayers for ever more money and all the rest.

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It gets better with the continued shrinking of the public sector and higher tiers in union contracts. You and I won't likely see it but it will happen...I think.

Leftie, the new tiers will help in the long run assuming that the state legislature doesn’t buy off the unions by sweetening the existing tiers. They did that in 2000, sweetening Tier 4 by eliminating employee contributions after 10 years membership and then, of course, they had to do something equally nice for Tier 2 so they gave them 2 years service credit for time they didn’t work. There’s nothing to prevent them from doing something similar for Tiers 5&6 in 2020. They can enhance the Tiers anytime they want to but they can’t reduce them once adopted.

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Originally Posted by grump

Leftie, the new tiers will help in the long run assuming that the state legislature doesn’t buy off the unions by sweetening the existing tiers. They did that in 2000, sweetening Tier 4 by eliminating employee contributions after 10 years membership and then, of course, they had to do something equally nice for Tier 2 so they gave them 2 years service credit for time they didn’t work. There’s nothing to prevent them from doing something similar for Tiers 5&6 in 2020. They can enhance the Tiers anytime they want to but they can’t reduce them once adopted.

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Good point. Man it's depressing.

Leftie, what do you make of the movers and shakers wanting to give One Empty Tower to Amazon as part of the HQ2 proposal. Nice of them to offer to give away other people’s property.

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Originally Posted by grump

Leftie, what do you make of the movers and shakers wanting to give One Empty Tower to Amazon as part of the HQ2 proposal. Nice of them to offer to give away other people’s property.

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Never stopped them before.

I still can't believe Cuomo and supporting crew gave solar city 100's of millions of our money.

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Originally Posted by grump

Leftie, what do you make of the movers and shakers wanting to give One Empty Tower to Amazon as part of the HQ2 proposal. Nice of them to offer to give away other people’s property.

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Sadly, I think the developer agreed to be in on the project because it would have been the best payout for them. Still no progress on the site....

I used to be really positive about the opportunities for Buffalo and WNY but lately I have just been finding too many people who think things are already fixed.

Leftie, not being cute but what do you mean by “things are already fixed”. Fixed, as in the bid rigging involved in the allegations against members of Cuomo’s inner circle? Or “fixed” as in everything is ok & headed in the right direction? Actually either way it doesn’t much matter. The tax picture speaks for itself and it makes meaningful long term change here impossible. Sadly, Il Douche was handed the opportunity for change on a silver platter by Trump. Instead of seizing the opportunity to announce a sea change in NY tax and spend policy based on changes in federal tax law, he announced idiotic plans for bogus “charities” and other such bull crap to continue to collect exorbitant, job and wealth destroying taxes. An historic opportunity lost.

I think they need to spread the BS that "things are already fixed" because they need to stay in control.

IE: Local town boards who don't have a handle on labor costs same goes for school districts. Same goes for development agencies who depend on government funding to "grow" our area.

You are going to keep bragging "what we do works!!!" Frankly that is matter of opinion. I listen to various "State of the town" addresses in Erie County and wonder what they are smoking.

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Originally Posted by grump

Leftie, not being cute but what do you mean by “things are already fixed”. Fixed, as in the bid rigging involved in the allegations against members of Cuomo’s inner circle? Or “fixed” as in everything is ok & headed in the right direction? Actually either way it doesn’t much matter. The tax picture speaks for itself and it makes meaningful long term change here impossible. Sadly, Il Douche was handed the opportunity for change on a silver platter by Trump. Instead of seizing the opportunity to announce a sea change in NY tax and spend policy based on changes in federal tax law, he announced idiotic plans for bogus “charities” and other such bull crap to continue to collect exorbitant, job and wealth destroying taxes. An historic opportunity lost.

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There are people who think a company taking a prize and moving here is the same as a company moving to the area. There are people who think a refugee being resettled is the same as someone moving to the area from North Carolina. There are people who think Buffalo has already rebounded and it's just on a path of slow progress.

True enough. I think it’s important to note that the current flood of immigrants is materially different from the previous inflow of Poles, Irish, Italians etc who came here willing to work hard to improve their lives and the lives of their families. This current group comes here fully intent on going on welfare for the rest of their lives.

This is cool.


Changing shape: M&T Bank's real estate footprint in Western New York


M&T Bank – already a major occupier of real estate in the Buffalo market – will take new space at Seneca One Tower as part of a plan to consolidate some of its technology workers into a single location.

https://www.bizjournals.com/buffalo/...sKf0jp8ak_qG9k

M&T officially announces move to Seneca One Tower

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M&T Bank will move into floors 7 to 22 of the 38-story building, creating a new "technology hub" that will add at least 1,000 new jobs over the next five years.

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https://www.wgrz.com/article/money/b...4-cad4a6a9c143

This is awesome if this all works out for the owner.



"We're going to fill the building:" Several companies in talks with Seneca One for office space

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BUFFALO (WKBW) — In the weeks since M&T Bank announced it was moving 1,000 employees into the redeveloped Seneca One, tenant interest in the building has exploded. Douglas Development confirms with 7 Eyewitness News that "several companies" have been in contract talks on also making the tallest building in Buffalo their future home. "We're going to fill the building.", said Paul Millstein from Douglas Development.

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https://www.wkbw.com/news/wny-develo...P5BxrRupCbPRu0

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Originally Posted by WNYresident

M&T officially announces move to Seneca One Tower




https://www.wgrz.com/article/money/b...4-cad4a6a9c143

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So we can add this 1000 jobs to the thousands to be created at Riverbend. Believe it when you see it folks. Believe it when you see it and not until. So far this is little more than a consolidation and is simply a reshuffling of real estate usage that benefits M&T by the consolidation. Don’t get me wrong...if it works for M&T fine but it’s simply going to move some empty commercial space from one big building to a bunch of smaller ones.

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Originally Posted by grump

So we can add this 1000 jobs to the thousands to be created at Riverbend. Believe it when you see it folks. Believe it when you see it and not until. So far this is little more than a consolidation and is simply a reshuffling of real estate usage that benefits M&T by the consolidation. Don’t get me wrong...if it works for M&T fine but it’s simply going to move some empty commercial space from one big building to a bunch of smaller ones.

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I think these jobs are much more 'real' than the others. M&T is M&T....


You're 100% right about the reshuffle. That's a big tower to fill and not much 'new' coming into the region. Hopefully, at some point, this allows the lower end space to be updated or converted. Won't be for a while....

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Originally Posted by grump

So we can add this 1000 jobs to the thousands to be created at Riverbend. Believe it when you see it folks. Believe it when you see it and not until. So far this is little more than a consolidation and is simply a reshuffling of real estate usage that benefits M&T by the consolidation. Don’t get me wrong...if it works for M&T fine but it’s simply going to move some empty commercial space from one big building to a bunch of smaller ones.

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yup. most of the M&T jobs are going to be consolidations from 3 or 4 buildings in Amherst and Cheektowaga, not net new jobs.

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Originally Posted by grump

So we can add this 1000 jobs to the thousands to be created at Riverbend. Believe it when you see it folks. Believe it when you see it and not until. So far this is little more than a consolidation and is simply a reshuffling of real estate usage that benefits M&T by the consolidation. Don’t get me wrong...if it works for M&T fine but it’s simply going to move some empty commercial space from one big building to a bunch of smaller ones.

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I want to see the city grow and wish the owner who made the investment does well with it. Those smaller commercial spaces that we see in the burbs pulled many businesses out of the city. Many were built with tax breaks. I never cared for that type of stuff.

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Originally Posted by WNYresident

I want to see the city grow and wish the owner who made the investment does well with it. Those smaller commercial spaces that we see in the burbs pulled many businesses out of the city. Many were built with tax breaks. I never cared for that type of stuff.

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Nor do I. But continuing and compounding prior mistakes by adding to them doesn’t fix the underlying problem of a dying economy due to the taxing policies of Il Douche, Poloncarz, Brown, Kulpa and a host of others.

I went back and re-read this thread in light of the current situation. Has a single M&T job been moved into the tower in the year and a half since the big announcement. Near as I can tell the only real change is that the building has been painted red. Well, I suppose it put some painters to work for a week or two.

Valid point.

I like to read old news papers when elected officials brag about their ideas.... fast forward 20+ years you see how stupid they were.

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Originally Posted by grump

I went back and re-read this thread in light of the current situation. Has a single M&T job been moved into the tower in the year and a half since the big announcement. Near as I can tell the only real change is that the building has been painted red. Well, I suppose it put some painters to work for a week or two.

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M&T would have moved a large number of people if it wasn't for covid. They had people in Seneca One on a limited basis.
It's a big PR stunt though. The people they're moving down there are coming from other locations, including Appletree Mall so then those offices spaces will be empty

The question is will they ever turn the project into what was announced. If many will continue to work from home as Covid fades away there will be no need for much of the space. And what does that do to the underlying idea, that having a bunch of businesses there will lead to “creative collisions” or however it was phrased.

they'll be forcing people back into the office as soon as covid ends. the new head of technology has too much pr and money invested not to
they tried to get people to volunteer to go back to the office and go to seneca one a few months ago when cases were going down and things started opening back up