Dont want to be a "Victim" Stand Up !

[4248]

Jason Van Tatenhove and Stewart Rhodes * October 09 2015
Reporting from Roseburg, Oregon

In the wake of Umpqua Community College shooting, Oath Keepers to form college student groups on college campuses across the U.S. (starting here in Oregon) to teach the students to fight back. As part of its new S.T.O.P (Students Taking Over Protection) program, Oath Keepers military, police, and first-responder instructors will teach the students to fight back with empty hands, improvised weapons, knives, and firearms, and will teach them effective combat mindset and awareness techniques and strategies so the students can be their own "first-responders" and take out an active shooter.

Just as post 9-11, where people no longer submit and cooperate in their own murders on planes, the obvious answer to school shootings on college and high school campuses is that the students must stop submitting and cooperating in their own murders. They must fight back, and we will show them how.

Like millions of other young Americans, these college students have been conditioned since grade school to be passive, submissive and "non-violent" - taught that violence is "never the answer" despite reality showing that sometimes violence is the ONLY answer. So it should be no surprise that the students at Umpqua Community College (with the notable exception of Army veteran Chris Mintz) were passive, submissive, and obeyed the commands of the shooter. They allowed themselves to be herded into a corner and then complied with his commands to lay down on the floor and obediently remained on the floor until ordered one at a time to stand up where they were asked by the shooter if they were religious or not. If they answered "no" they were shot in the arm or the leg, If they answered "yes" they were shot in the head. The shooter did this one at a time, one after another, with the students obediently laying on the floor until it was their turn to stand and be shot. The conditioning was so severe that even when it was made clear that they were all to be shot, they still remained on the floor.

What they should have done was to instantly rush, tackle, and subdue the attacker. Even without training in hand-to hand-combat or gun disarmament they would have put an end to the shooting just by attacking the attacker. This is not a "hardware" problem. It is a "software" problem. It is a problem of mindset. Young Americans have been conditioned to not to fight back even when it is the only option that will save lives and end the violence.

So Oath Keepers is now going to form Oath Keepers Student groups on every U.S. college campus, starting right here in Roseburg, Oregon, at Umpqua Community College, where our local chapter leader, Rob Price, is an alumni and we also have Oath Keeper members that are now currently students. We will teach them to fight back with their empty hands, with improvised weapons, with less than lethal tools such as pepper spray, com-tech stingers, kubotans, etc. and lethal force tools such as knives and guns. We will provide a full spectrum of training and leave up to them which self defense tool they will use. But the most important shift will be in their mindset.

Oath Keepers founder Stewart Rhodes taught rape prevention and street crime survival for three years as a volunteer instructor for the Jean Nidetch Womens Center at UNLV, teaching students to do exactly what we will be teaching them now across the country, with a focus on combat mindset and need to resist. This includes awareness and mental conditioning so that they can see an attack coming and have a plan for response.

Also assisting in this curriculum will be John Karriman, Oath Keeper Leader from Missouri, who is a current serving police academy defensive tactics instructor and Rick Moon, our Arkansas state chapter president who is a U.S. Army Special Forces Veteran and has also worked for TSA in threat analysis and identification methodologies. In fact, while working for TSA, Rick Moon actually identified and stopped an active shooter at a airport before he could open fire.

John Karriman, in his defensive tactics classes, routinely has the students undergo a realistic active shooter scenario. One student is given a semiautomatic Simunition handgun, firing paint marker rounds, and plays the role of an active shooter who walks into the room and opens fire while the 10 - 12 other students react. He teaches the students to react by instantly attacking the attacker, en-mass, and taking him down and disarming him. In all of times that he has run this scenario, no more than two students are shot by the role-playing attacker before they are able to overpower shooter. Even without training in disarming techniques, any group of people - even unarmed - can overpower an armed attacker just by taking decisive action - by instantly attacking the attacker. This is the most important thing to teach students. But we will also teach them effective techniques. Each class will include running through this very scenario with a paintball gun or Simunitions pain marker gun. And each class will also be taught the full spectrum of effective tools of defense, and how to use them.

Once again this is first and foremost a mental "software" issue, not a "hardware issue." Much as post 9-11 we no longer just submit to an attacker on an airline, but instead attack and subdue them, we must also do the same when it comes to active shooter situations in our schools. We will start in our U.S. colleges with these student groups and then work backwards through our high schools (forming Oath Keepers high school student groups) to undo the conditioning that our kids are being subjected to, which makes them passive victims in the face of violence.

Remember, this passive victim conditioning makes them submissive not just to private violence, abuse, and oppression, but also to government violence, abuse, and oppression. And we believe this is the big-picture goal of such social conditioning - a nation of passive, submissive, and obedient serfs. Those of us who are police, military and first-responder veterans understand the need for the warrior mindset of decisive action, and we need to pass it on. It is our duty to teach our young people to defend themselves and each other. This effective answer does not rely on politicians, but will be done by the people themselves, and we will lead the way.

Below is a video of an interview with Red List News in which Stewart Rhodes and Jason Van Tatenhove discuss this program and the details around it with hosts Dave Hodges and Jim White.

Oath Keepers is growing - learn more: http://oathkeepers.org/

[300miles]

That article reads like it was written by idiots. Aside from the fact that knowing self-defense is a good thing, most of the rest of their points are hogwash. Young Americans are not any more "submissive" than middle aged or older Americans. And teaching that violence is not the answer is NOT the problem. In fact, the falling rates of violent crime would prove just the opposite. Besides, at what point in recent history did we ever teach people that violence IS the answer??

I really love this bit: "Just as post 9-11, where people no longer submit and cooperate in their own murders on planes"... How many attempted murders on planes have there been since 9/11 that he thinks it would no longer happen??

[nogods]

Oathkeepers are mostly insecure people looking for attention. They think THEY are the only people who "know" what the constitution means. They are not committed to the United States. They are only committed to their version of the United States. They are like the losers of an election in a banana republic who try to overthrow the government because the majority of voters didn't agree with them,

[4248]

[QUOTE=nogods]Oathkeepers are mostly insecure people looking for attention. They think THEY are the only people who "know" what the constitution means.
Unlike Nogods who thinks he's the only one the constitution pertains to and hates people who pay attention !

They are not committed to the United States.
Their more committed than Party Lawyers !

They are only committed to their version of the United States.
Unlike Nogods who thinks we all should submit to his version of the United States.

They are like the losers of an election in a banana republic who try to overthrow the government because the majority of voters didn't agree with them,
Glad we don't live in a Banana Republic where you'd jail those who speak out !

[Linda_D]

My guess is that neither of these two cretins, just like 4248, have ever been on a college campus since they went for a day trip to the local community college with their high school class.

• Fact one: most college campuses prohibit firearms on campus; some even prohibit security from carrying firearms.
• Fact two: colleges are NOT going to allow some outside organization run by a bunch of right wing nutjobs to come on to campus to teach students how to use "lethal force tools such as knives and guns" as it would open them up to all kinds of lawsuits.
• Fact three: most colleges, perhaps almost all, already provide training for students and staff on what to do in active shooter situations.
• Fact four: probably every college in the US already offers martial arts/self defense classes through their phys ed or continuing ed/credit free programs.
• Fact five: colleges that feel the need to bring outside groups in to help with student security issues always turn to law enforcement first.

I'm sure that the entire purpose of this "program" is to separate more fools from more of their money. So, how much have you been bilked for, 4248?

[4248]

My guess is that neither of these two cretins, just like 4248, have ever been on a college campus since they went for a day trip to the local community college with their high school class.

• Fact one: most college campuses prohibit firearms on campus; some even prohibit security from carrying firearms. Here we go again - one who doesn't know (LindaD) pretends to post facts - what world do you live in - most Campuses have armed Officers - ever visit Buf State or UB - I have !
  
  
• Fact two: colleges are NOT going to allow some outside organization run by a bunch of right wing nutjobs to come on to campus to teach students how to use "lethal force tools such as knives and guns" as it would open them up to all kinds of lawsuits. ECC teaches Karate and other self defense courses are they "Wingnuts" too ? Where do you get this stuff from ?
  
  
• Fact three: most colleges, perhaps almost all, already provide training for students and staff on what to do in active shooter situations. Yes, cower and cover - run and cry when the Cops come to drag out your dead friends - most effective so far!
  
• Fact four: probably every college in the US already offers martial arts/self defense classes through their phys ed or continuing ed/credit free programs. Doesn't that sort of contradict "Fact two" -
  
  
• Fact five: colleges that feel the need to bring outside groups in to help with student security issues always turn to law enforcement first. Yes, after the guns have gone off, after the murders have occurred - they call for help - hows that working for all those kids and their families lately - STAND UP ! Government cant protect you !
  

I'm sure that the entire purpose of this "program" is to separate more fools from more of their money. So, how much have you been bilked for, 4248?

I have not donated one cent to them or the NRA
- the support I give is by understanding their purpose and helping spread the word
- I am gonna buy a T-shirt from both groups sooner or later

and every/any time a see one of their supporters or reps
- I shake their hand and say, "THANK YOU FOR STANDING UP FOR US !"
The same way I greet every man and women in Uniform !

[Chant]

My guess is that neither of these two cretins, just like 4248, have ever been on a college campus since they went for a day trip to the local community college with their high school class.

• Fact one: most college campuses prohibit firearms on campus; some even prohibit security from carrying firearms.
  
  Yes. Which is what makes them such a ideal target-rich environment for whack-jobs that want to kill defenseless victims, without much worry of them getting killed themselves... at least until they've had their fill of fun. They obviously don't care that firearms are prohibited there... and the "gun free zone" signs, much like the goggles on The Simpsons, do nothing.
  
  
• Fact two: colleges are NOT going to allow some outside organization run by a bunch of right wing nutjobs to come on to campus to teach students how to use "lethal force tools such as knives and guns" as it would open them up to all kinds of lawsuits.
  
  So... if some student there taking a chemistry class uses what they learned in class to build a bomb, and they set it off in a busy mall, the college who taught the student that knowledge would be liable... using that logic? Whatever happened to taking responsibility for one's actions?
  
  
• Fact three: most colleges, perhaps almost all, already provide training for students and staff on what to do in active shooter situations.
  
  Yes, cower and hide. Its worked so well up until this point (NOT!). Or how about the one school that suggested their students throw canned corn at spree shooters? Now that was epic training for you.
  
  
• Fact four: probably every college in the US already offers martial arts/self defense classes through their phys ed or continuing ed/credit free programs.
  
  AND
  
  
• Fact five: colleges that feel the need to bring outside groups in to help with student security issues always turn to law enforcement first.

I personally am well-acquainted with two martial arts instructors that taught classes at both ECC and Hilbert. They were both "outside" help that were brought in and neither was "law enforcement". If you don't think they taught improvised weapons or techniques that could possibly be lethal at some point in these classes, you are a bit naive.


I'm sure that the entire purpose of this "program" is to separate more fools from more of their money. So, how much have you been bilked for, 4248?

Any martial arts or self-defense program will be a waste of money and time if you do not intend to practice and drill with what you've learned. I make that the very first point I make whenever teaching a self-defense class. The fools are the ones who take a few classes, call it good, and never again practice what they learned.

[4248]

DETROIT — Detroit police say the pastor of a storefront church shot and killed a man who tried to attack him during a service.

Assistant Detroit Police Chief Steve Dolunt tells the Detroit News and Detroit Free Press the shooting happened Sunday afternoon just after the start of a service at the City of God church.

Dolunt says the man and the pastor had prior "issues." He says the man was threatening the pastor with a brick when the pastor pulled out a pistol and shot him several times. The man died a short time later at a hospital.

Authorities didn't immediately release the names of either man.

Dolunt says prosecutors will review the case to decide whether the shooting was justified. The pastor was taken into custody for questioning.

[FisherRd]

I really love this bit: "Just as post 9-11, where people no longer submit and cooperate in their own murders on planes"... How many attempted murders on planes have there been since 9/11 that he thinks it would no longer happen??

I think he's saying any disruption on a plane now ends with the disrupters hog tied or ****-kicked, perhaps both. Nobody sits idly by on a plane anymore as some nut starts acting up. Which seems legit on it's face, no?

[FisherRd]

Were those skid marks left by Linda? She never returns to the scene of her bludgeoning.

[Save Us]

Any martial arts or self-defense program will be a waste of money and time if you do not intend to practice and drill with what you've learned. I make that the very first point I make whenever teaching a self-defense class. The fools are the ones who take a few classes, call it good, and never again practice what they learned.

.......THIS.....

People these days have their heads so far up their rears that there is no situational awareness. Just look at the selfie and walk while texting idiots.