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Thread: Gun Control: 1900-2000 170,000,000 dead. How can you support such?

  1. #1
    Member FMD's Avatar
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    Question Gun Control: 1900-2000 170,000,000 dead. How can you support such?

    Support Gun Control?

    This video



    After watching the video, explain how you can possibly support gun control.
    Willful ignorance is the downfall of every major empire in history.

    "Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun." - Mao, 1938

  2. #2
    Member nogods's Avatar
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    Not allowing bat-**** crazy people to legally own a gun is gun control.

    Are you against that?

    If so, it is probably because you are bat-**** crazy and shouldn't be allowed to legally possess a firearm.

  3. #3
    Member FMD's Avatar
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    I dont own any guns. Not that, that is any of your business though..

    You call me crazy, yet refuse to acknowledge that history IS repeating itself.
    Willful ignorance is the downfall of every major empire in history.

    "Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun." - Mao, 1938

  4. #4
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    2nd Amendment




    Nogods does have a point about medically crazy/insane people. Only issue with that is where do you draw the line with what medically crazy/insane is.

  5. #5
    Member nogods's Avatar
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    That clip only address the issue that was addressed in Heller.

    We still have to deal with the developing a definition of "the right to keep an bear arms" and the meaning of "infringe."

    Does it mean any "arms" (whatever that means) by any person at anytime in any place?


    Does the "right to keep and bear arms" include the right to possess a firearm while being held in the Erie County Jail awaiting trial? Those people haven't been convicted, they have merely been arrested. they are still presumed innocent and many of them are in fact innocent. Isn't prohibiting them from possessing an ak-47 an infringement on their right to keep and bear arms"? What does Penn think the founders would have said of that question.

    Does the right "to keep and bear arms" apply to a person being held in a mental institution after being found not quiltey by reason of insanity? That person hasn't been convicted of a crime. In fact, they have been found "not guilty". Isn;t prohibiting that person from possessing a firearm a infringement of their right to keep and bear arms? What does Penn think the founders would say of that?

    And what about "arms" - what does that include. I don't see any limitation on that word in the bill of rights. So doesn't it apply to nuclear arms and weapons of mass destruction?

    Or, at the other end of extremist interpretation, does it only include the arms in existence when the bill of rights was adopted? Pen used the circumstances of the time (a war just fought with England) to interpret the meaning of a part of the 2A, so why wouldn't that same reasoning apply to all of it. You get to keep ball and musket, and maybe a cannon under that reasoning.

    Our founders were not idiots. they knew that the words and phrases they chose had no universal meaning. They knew that the words and phrases they were using had different meaniungs to each of them, no less the entire population and future generations.

    They were wise enough to create a system of government under which all three divisions would be participants in the resolution of conflicts.

    If we could ask the founders what they meant by the words and phrases used in the constitution and the Bill of Rights I think they would reply "They mean exactly what "We the People" determine them to mean. And we sent up a system for ourselves and future generations to use to make those determinations."

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    Extremist? So anyone that does not agree with your left leaning ideology is now an extremist?

    Further, where does it say 'democracy' in our founding documents?

    Also, the 2A is just one of many amendments and rights we the people have, however the govt is eroding such by creating 'free speech zones'

    And what about the 4A? which was grossly violated after the boston bombings..
    Willful ignorance is the downfall of every major empire in history.

    "Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun." - Mao, 1938

  7. #7
    Member nogods's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FMD View Post
    Extremist? So anyone that does not agree with your left leaning ideology is now an extremist?

    Further, where does it say 'democracy' in our founding documents?

    Also, the 2A is just one of many amendments and rights we the people have, however the govt is eroding such by creating 'free speech zones'

    And what about the 4A? which was grossly violated after the boston bombings..
    The two most common 2A extemeists interpretations are:

    1. any person, any place, any time, any arms.
    2. musket and ball, cannon, and bayonet.

    You don't think those are the extreme? Perhaps you think one of them is sensible?

    Who said anything about "democracy"? First, I didn't characterize the system our founders created, I merely referred to it. Second, the "we are a republic not a democracy" adolescent rant is..well..adolescent. When people use the term democracy in connection with our system of government they are using it as a description of our system, they aren't aren't using it as some bunker dwellers definition.

    Third, people who make statements like "the government is this...and the government is that..." are apparently unaware that We the People are the government. Those who self-disenfranchise themselves from our government have no bases for complaining of it.

  8. #8
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    Our founders were not idiots. I agree

    We still have to deal with the developing a definition of "the right to keep an bear arms" and the meaning of "infringe."

    Actually we don't. You need to watch the video again.

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