Once solid, job safety net frays as construction work fades /immigrants

[FMD]

What? The all holy American small business owner is screwing Americans? Please say it ain't so!

Most small business owners are hard working honest Americans who arnt out to screw anybody.

Small business owners prefer "independent contractors" so that the small business owner won't have to pay the employer's share of FICA/Medicare taxes, worker's comp premiums, and other employment taxes imposed on the employer. When you consider, that in NYS alone, that the taxes, fees, and workmans comp forced upon small businesses in the trades, equates to nearly $10 per hour on a guy making $17/hr, thats a problem.

Your next answer will be 'well they must charge more then'

Would you pay a contractor, to come paint your house who is billing at $100 per hour for 3 guys? Doubt it. And 99% of home owners wont. They want a 'reasonable fee' for a project. However, heres the best part, most of your residential trades dont carry workmans comp, because if they did, the prices you pay would triple over night for services. And since all those 'educated' guys who cant find work buy a ladder a few tools and a magnet off the internet, become 'contractors' over night... drive down the prices of legit contractors. "Independent contractors" like to be "off the books" so that they have a better chance of getting away with tax evasion for the money they get from the contractor.
And if the govt didnt use the threat of extreme violence, emotional distress, and DEATH to scare people into forking over 40+ % of their income, this wouldnt be 'exploding'
Blaming illegal immigrants for screwing up the formerly "All-American" tax evasion culture is like blaming yeast for DWI's.

you have a point. the issue at hand here is the govt, taxes, and regulations imposed by govt.

The only reason the lower 90% of the US population never got out of the last recession is because of Govt. Period.

The core reason is govt. taxes, fees, and regulations imposed by govt is driving people into the 'black market' of employment.

[nogods]

Small business owners prefer "independent contractors" so that the small business owner won't have to pay the employer's share of FICA/Medicare taxes, worker's comp premiums, and other employment taxes imposed on the employer. When you consider, that in NYS alone, that the taxes, fees, and workmans comp forced upon small businesses in the trades, equates to nearly $10 per hour on a guy making $17/hr, thats a problem.

When a contractor uses only "independent contractors" the first contractor is using other small business owners. The painting contractor who uses only "independent contractors" instead of employees to swing the brushes is avoiding the obligation for employment taxes and other employee related expenses, but those expenses are then just pushed onto the "independent contractors" swinging the brushes - they don't disappear. Instead of the Social security tax being split between the contractor and the brush swingers, it all falls on the brush swingers. Instead of having workers comp coverage the "independent contractors" swinging the brushes need to purchase disability insurance to cover their exposure to work related injury.

Thus, if all parties involved in the contract act prudently then the cost to the consumer isn't going to be any less regardless of whether the contractor uses employees or independent contractors to swing the brushes.

[NY The Vampire State]

Independent contractors do not have to purchase disability insurance.

Maybe comp would be more affordable IF YOUR GOVERNOR WOULD STOP RAIDING THE RESERVE FUNDS TO BALANCE THE GENERAL FUND!!??

Its not his money. Do you know how many members of the NY legislature, both Democrat and Republican REFUSE to acknowledge this? They let this pricks father do it when he was in office and they let Andy get away with it too.


http://nypost.com/2013/03/11/a-risky-budget-gimmick/

The scammers are the government. The smart business people will find ways to avoid being scammed.


Aren't lawyers independent contractors?

[nogods]

Independent contractors do not have to purchase disability insurance.

Hey Einstein, they have to purchase disability insurance if they want to be covered for the same risk that an employee has coverage for under worker's comp.

If you want to compare the price of performing a contract with employees versus using other small business owners, you have to equalize the conditions.

No wonder Pam Brown, as incompetent as she is, still makes 10 times what you make.

[NY The Vampire State]

Your post said they had to. You can purchase whatever you want.

[FMD]

Your post said they had to. You can purchase whatever you want.

Unless you live in Amerika, where the govt tries to force you to buy something you dont want.

[steven]

This is why nothing ever gets solved, if people could ever get past the partisan bickering maybe we would find a solution to this problem.

The fact is a good chunk of the American population is not, nor will they ever be computer programmers or engineers. You can throw all the education in the world at someone with a 70 IQ the light bulb is never going to go on. Deal with it. I know it doesn't fit your narrative but try to use common sense we aren't all equal, some of us are dumber then others. A tax break isn't going to solve the problem either. A business owner looks out for himself first. You know it and I know it.

Genetics make up an estimated 40 to 80% of a person's IQ
Source: University of Delaware

Lower then average IQ is roughly 30-35% of our country, about 100 million people.

Below average, 70-84, makes up 13.59% of our population about 40 million people and the really really low, 69 and below, make up about 3% that is almost 4 million people.

Its funny the same people that want the Micky D's worker to make $15 an hour doesn't want a contractor to make money and vice versa.

The fact is a third of our population does not and will not have the capacity to be a desk jockey. Until we find a way to make sure that this third can find meaningful well paying jobs like we had in the past at the steel plants, building trades, etc we will continue to be screwed as a nation.

Lowering taxes a wont fix it and throwing money at education wont fix it and bickering over pedestrian band aid fixes like the aforementioned just keeps us stuck in the same cycle.

Elevate the conversation and see progress

[FMD]

So your saying that only people with low IQs go into the trades?

[Frank Broughton]

So your saying that only people with low IQs go into the trades?

He did NOT say that..... you must be a Democrat - twisting peoples words is the mantra of said.

[steven]

So your saying that only people with low IQs go into the trades?

Good grief, this is what I mean. what if the majority of people in trades are that 1/3, so what? Having a high IQ doesn't make you a better person, parent or neighbor, as a matter of fact it doesn't necessarily make you more useful.

I have a female friend who is a card carrying member of Mensa. Math problems I cant even pronounce she whiz's thru in seconds. She still cant do a lot of things I can do with little to no effort. My handyman is a rock, but guess what? he can do things with drywall and plumbing that I can only dream of. He spent two hours fixing what I took a week to screw up just last week.

I don't know when it happened that we started looking down on some people. I do remember president Bush saying "we need immigrants to do the jobs Americans don't want to" and I remember Obama echoing that same sentiment. That offends the hell out of me. My father taught me any job you do, you do well and take pride in it, be it Nuclear scientist or chief **** shoveler.

Stop picking sides, stop playing the blame game. Elevate the conversation beyond the us vs them mentality........... Is that even possible anymore?

[Linda_D]

The reality, steven, is that jobs for the uneducated and unskilled -- for whatever reason they're uneducated and unskilled -- are disappearing and the minimum-skill jobs that exist are paying less and less in relation to everything else because there is an oversupply of people who want them. The world changes. A hundred years ago, somebody who couldn't read and write could still earn a living as a farmer or artisan or factory worker. Fifty years ago, they could scrape by with low-end jobs. Now, they can't because even the lowest paying jobs require some skills beyond a willingness to work hard.

I don't know what the solution is for the people who are not very bright or not very inclined towards education. Their futures are grim because they're being left behind, but they lack either the ability or the motivation to change their lives. They're caught by an economic and technological sea change that's really beyond the ability of any political party or even a country to "solve".

I generally object to the tone of this particular article because the person described in it has done everything possible to set himself up for failure, and the author doesn't ever address that. Some posters here ignore that and keep making excuses for him. IMO, they do so because he's a white male, and he gives them a convenience excuse to pee and moan about immigrants, the government, and the end of the special entitlements of white males that were the norm in the past.

If this was a story about a black woman who couldn't find a decent job, those same posters would be yapping about her "bad choices". Well, this guy made bad choices, and in the world we live in, he has to live with those choices just like the dolly who gets pregnant at 16 and drops out of school.

[steven]

well I agree with a lot of what your saying but IMO the big picture is getting missed. This isn't a small fraction of the population we are talking about its almost a third of this country.

This is the first time in history that those not inclined to education are getting left behind in such great numbers. At the end of the day it just wont work, there are to many people and a shrinking amount of jobs left for them.

To be productive members of society those people need jobs, for there own well being as well as that of society and both partys refuse to accept that, the Dems want to throw money at education the repubs want to hand out vouchers and tax cuts. Neither of those is going to help that 70-80 IQ person have a better life.... that is 40 Million people in this country.

You find me a politician that has a solution for that problem and I will be first at the polling place. I dont care what party he/she represents.