Yes
No
Not sure
Okay, this is an important question to get an opinion poll of.
By saying "tax incentives" I mean a little break for moving into an existing store.... definately not like the Bass Pro BS of "incentive")
One million years ago, 1980 to be exact, I got my first professional job working for the City. I did all of my clothes and gift shopping during my lunch hour. I loved to go to Bergers and Hengerers. The Main Place Mall had real stores like Gutmans. 2008 - I still work downtown and do ZERO shopping.
Tax breaks aren't going to make a difference.
People shop where it's convenient for them, usually meaning convenient to their homes since most Americans barely get a half-hour lunch break, much less the privilege of taking a "long lunch" to do some shopping. The prospering shopping areas in the city are all close to stable, middle class neighborhoods. I just don't see how the 5,000+ people living in and around the downtown area are going to support more than the modest retail that's there now.
I remember the days of shopping downtown without living or working downtown. I'd take a bus there, shop, grab a bite to eat, then catch a bus back home. I'd do it all again if there was any hope for downtown shopping again.Originally Posted by Linda_D
Ok before I contribute to this thread I must ask... Woodstock did you get a new digital camera for christmas??? I am not baiting you or what ever term you throw up I am just curious that is all.
Now, I think offering tax breaks creates more of a problem because you have resources that are being used. Taxes pay for these resources. If business get tax breaks they still use resources up. It will cost other people more money who do not have these tax breaks to make up the difference.
Buffalo had no business building that low wire hanging rail system. Everyone other than the NFTA said it was not feasable. Buffalo needs to do something about the parkiing.. That is so backwards paying to park........ Employees of business should not have to pay at all. They should get an excemption card. Show proof of employement get the card. Park free.
Like wise I cannot imagine Bass Pro doing a bang up business now in January. One hand the aud needs to go and something should go there but a sporting good store......... We shall see..... Lot of things could happen in the next year or two...
Why do ppl have such a problem with me using pictures in my posts? You all act as if only you (personally) are seeing them. What ever happened to pictures adding to content?I've had my camera for about 6 months now.
Back to topic....
I'm not talking about a 1,000% tax incentive, but if a 10% in break means adding 110% of full shopping in downtown Buffalo again, how bad would it hurt? point being.... there is no shopping in downtown anymore, what else could be done to attract businesses back?Now, I think offering tax breaks creates more of a problem because you have resources that are being used. Taxes pay for these resources. If business get tax breaks they still use resources up. It will cost other people more money who do not have these tax breaks to make up the difference.
Successful shopping areas have very little to do with location, or being close to neighborhoods. People will drive miles to get to large shopping malls. The Galleria attracts people from all over WNY and S.Ontario.
Much more important than proximity is having a dense variety of stores. If people can go to one area and get everything they need, they will go... no matter how far away from their home.
Downtown had that at one time and everyone shopped there. But after the decline of the city, and the creation of suburban shopping malls, and the problems with the Pedestrian Mall, shopping was killed off. Now the suburban malls have the dense variety.
IMO... Tax incentives are not enough to get things started again. It would take more than that to create a destination again. But tax incentives are definitely one piece of the solution.
What more would it take?
It's a chicken-and-egg scenario. Business won't open stores there because there are no other stores there now. And nobody will shop there because there are no stores. It's nearly impossibly to force a new shopping district there. That is why the whole Bass Pro mess started... the city feels that subsidizing one huge shopping destination will help draw other business to locate nearby.
I think they should focus on infrastructure. Fix the roads, lights, and sidewalks. Allow cars on Main, and extend the Metro to Amherst. Connect downtown with the waterfront. Build strategically placed parking garages.
I'm not even that old, and I remember going shopping downtown at Main Place Mall, AM & A's and the mall on the west side of Main that was below street level, The Courtyard Mall possibly. It's just sad to see how dreary and desolate Main looks now, and has looked for years. When the Main Street of a mid-size city can't even support a McDonalds or a Burger King, you've got problems. You have to get cars back onto Main, and keep the Metro Rail, but extend it to the southtowns and the northtowns. Build strategically placed parking garages with ground floor retail storefronts. I hate the garages near Chippewa that leave nothing but a brick wall at street level, with no chance of retail. It's a hideous look. (Augsberger Garage , City Center's garage)
PUGS !!!
The widening, the beautifcation of Hertel Ave. is a micrcosm of making downtown a thriving and attractive shopping/recreation center once again.
This IS a multi-problematic issue.
-Downtown has to compete with suburban malls & plazas with a loyal customer base
-Employees paying to park is a disgrace
-The metro rail IS a huge mistake but to invest in Buffalo's infrastructure, it SHOULD be extended to the burbs
-There's no dancing around the issue. There is a lot of "urban blight" downtown and the crime or the perception of safety downton needs to be cleaned up along with the abandoned buildlings and other sites that look as though they're left over from a war
-Perhaps its long overdue for downtown to have a hundred or so NEW streets paved over AND created to make shopping/tourist attactions more accessible
-But you want to talk waste?
Those $5 million surveillance camera's Mayor Brown's having installed are not going to help revive downtown Buffalo and begging and paying Bass Pro to set up here is pathetic and shameful
Now go shopping downtown. Or the terrorists win.
Coincidence is the word we use when we can't see the levers and pulleys.
Emma Bull
Right now I am in agreement with Harlem & Dumbfounded. Their replies are what the pictures show. Excellent point about how Burger King & McD's moving out, however, the TGIFriday's has been open for years and seems to be doing well. It's more "upscale" than fast food, but it's not enough to draw ppl downtown.
Competition with the suburbs, I'm not sure. For as much as I'd shop downtown, I'd take the same bus line in the opposite direction and shop at the Thruway Mall.
It's hard to say if it's the Metro rail that killed of business, or what.
I do know this though. Ppl will shop where other ppl tell them is a great place to shop, like a dance club or a nice restaurant.
It's been mentioned a few times of putting traffic back onto Main Street as well as keeping the metro rail going.... by looking at this picture, is there really enough room for two lanes per side of the train tracks w/o taking too much sidewalk space away? (two lanes meaning one for driving, the other for parking)
300miles more or less hits it on the head.
Add to that perceived safety / race issues and now you have the death knell. Shopping won't likely ever come back to downtown, doesn't matter how much of a tax break you give.
Actually there is one scenario that might bring shopping downtown. Gas prices hit $8.00/gal before 2010. That will drive energy / heating costs so high that people won't be able to afford the heat on 4000 sq. ft homes. They are forced to take up residence in smaller centralized complexes. Since those don't exist in Wmsvlle, the ones downtown are the obvious choice. Shopping would then return.
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