Marine Drive Apartments in trouble on the waterfront

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

I understand they have leases. What I should have said is you can't grand father people in just because they are there. Leases are year to year so there shouldn't be an issue.

Adjustments to the leases is not going to fix sh*t.

While I am sure it has some wish list items in the $42M, you're not going to raise enough money to fix the units on their own. That's why they are called SUBSIDIZED and not SELF SUSTAINING housing complexes.


If it was 1990, I could see the COB making the foolish decision to sink the money into the units to appears the small but loud voices. Now that CanalSide exists and all of the things going on with Pegulaville....I highly doubt these folks are going to get what they want.


If the leadership of the COB had half a brain, they would 1) wait for the new stadium to be built 2) redevelop the Perry Projects on a massive scale and to very high quality 3) Sell Marine Drive 4) Offer Marine Drive residents relocation help

[WNYresident]

It's not possible. 2 things are either going to happen.

1 - The City/State/Fed/Taxpayer funds the $42M in repairs

2 - The buildings are sold and the residents are forced to move

But that's racist! You hate poor people! How would you feel if someone wanted to kick you out of your home?

Happens all the time.


The state, city, fed can't pay for repairs. There is no justification to do so. If City/State/Fed/Taxpayers covers that cost then any other apartment complex or property owner should then have their repairs paid for. Fair is fair.

Are all the people in that complex disabled or very elderly where they can't fend for themselves? Maybe there is some justification but that doesn't justify at which location these people need to be cared for. Right?

No one has the "right" to live at any location they want that they can't afford. I'm pretty sure our Founding Fathers didn't mean if someone wants to live on beach front property but can't afford to that tax payers would make up the difference.

They know when their leases are up. They should start looking for new apartments if the rent increases are out of their budget.

In general no mercy. Why do you ask?

People who have lived in their homes for years sometimes have to sell them because they can't afford the needed repairs. In some cases people are forced out of their homes because they can't afford the tax increases on their property. Why would people living at these apartments be any different?

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

Happens all the time.


The state, city, fed can't pay for repairs. There is no justification to do so. If City/State/Fed/Taxpayers covers that cost then any other apartment complex or property owner should then have their repairs paid for. Fair is fair.

Are all the people in that complex disabled or very elderly where they can't fend for themselves? Maybe there is some justification but that doesn't justify at which location these people need to be cared for. Right?

No one has the "right" to live at any location they want that they can't afford. I'm pretty sure our Founding Fathers didn't mean if someone wants to live on beach front property but can't afford to that tax payers would make up the difference.

They know when their leases are up. They should start looking for new apartments if the rent increases are out of their budget.

In general no mercy. Why do you ask?

People who have lived in their homes for years sometimes have to sell them because they can't afford the needed repairs. In some cases people are forced out of their homes because they can't afford the tax increases on their property. Why would people living at these apartments be any different?

But that's racist! You hate poor people! How would you feel if someone wanted to kick you out of your home?

[joe d.]

But that's racist! You hate poor people! How would you feel if someone wanted to kick you out of your home?

IGNORANCE IS BLISS....YA YOU GOT IT...I didnt say anything to the effect of kicking them out... I said it should be sold to private owners and put on the tax rolls...is THE SUN NOT SHINING UP THERE??

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

IGNORANCE IS BLISS....YA YOU GOT IT...I didnt say anything to the effect of kicking them out... I said it should be sold to private owners and put on the tax rolls...is THE SUN NOT SHINING UP THERE??

[nogods]

Happens all the time.


The state, city, fed can't pay for repairs. There is no justification to do so. If City/State/Fed/Taxpayers covers that cost then any other apartment complex or property owner should then have their repairs paid for. Fair is fair.

Are all the people in that complex disabled or very elderly where they can't fend for themselves? Maybe there is some justification but that doesn't justify at which location these people need to be cared for. Right?

No one has the "right" to live at any location they want that they can't afford. I'm pretty sure our Founding Fathers didn't mean if someone wants to live on beach front property but can't afford to that tax payers would make up the difference.

They know when their leases are up. They should start looking for new apartments if the rent increases are out of their budget.

In general no mercy. Why do you ask?

People who have lived in their homes for years sometimes have to sell them because they can't afford the needed repairs. In some cases people are forced out of their homes because they can't afford the tax increases on their property. Why would people living at these apartments be any different?

There was a time when no one else would live there. Times change. To the extent that the residents are in need of financial aid under our social services guidelines, they should be helped to re-locate. But the best use of that property and its vlaue have changed over the last 10 to 20 years, and the useful life of the existing building for low income housing is waning fast.'

Besides, they can move back in in 20 or 30 years when the water front returns to a no man's land after the developers have squeezed every last cent of profit from it.

[granpabob]

300 for rent is a joke, they get utilities included . Gas, electric water almost equal that for most people. when you subtract the utilities are they really paying 50 to 150 in rent

[WNYresident]

300 for rent is a joke, they get utilities included . Gas, electric water almost equal that for most people. when you subtract the utilities are they really paying 50 to 150 in rent

Said the wise man



Are these people really low income? From what I heard is that some are government employees. For the most part even the low end government employee is paid rather well. Specially if you add up the entire compensation package instead of purposely ignoring benefits paid on top of take home money. Phil Rumor comes to mind.

$42,000,000 million could rehab quite a few vacant homes in Buffalo putting them back on the tax rolls. Right?

We can even purchase double wide trailers and make each current apartment renter a home owner.

http://www.titanfactorydirect.com/Ou....aspx?mid=8752

I wonder what the The San Saba sells for.

or

We can have those habitat houses built and turn each apartment renter into a home owner.

What is wrong with my logic?

Some people are not cut out to be home owners because they are not responsible enough to own a home.

Let us go back to the rehab idea.

If you took the average vacant home in Buffalo could you make them livable for $70,000?

$42,000,000 / $75,000 = 560 homes.

Get those paying property taxes and now you have some justification.


I wonder what the most that property would sell for.

[4248]

$42 MILLION in needed repairs - I doubt this happened over night. Yes, lets not look at the years of ignored needed repairs.

We dare not look at who earned so much money for doing ----------------------------What ?

Lets not ask why no one saw this coming and tried to make even the smallest efforts to prepare for it !

Its easier to say - lets sell it so someone else can make millions off this new prime real estate.

This is just another iconic example of the ineffectiveness of our ever growing tax funded Government and its failed agencies.

Some say - lets pay to move these people into other more affordable, subsidized less demand neighborhoods. How is that gonna change the tax dollars being spent ?

Will the tax revenue from redeveloping this land then pay for the cost of the moved and subsides residents ? Will it insure they finally get better paying jobs or get off tax funded aid ? I don't think so ! - Do you ?

But that will definitely please those who believe people with money should have those views of the harbor. That will definitely help put millions of dollars into the pockets of developers and their venders.

You hear of the "Grand Views" some tenants have
- do you know the size of their kitchens
- you cant have a table in their closet size cooking areas. The interior walls are two inch's think - made of uninsulated drywall.
- There TV sitting area can handle one couch or two recliners and a TV.
- The bathrooms are as small as most homes closets - no his and her sinks in these room.
- The bedrooms can fit one normal mattress and one small dresser - if its a two bedroom they are both the same
- separated by the two inch thick uninsulated drywall partitions.

Exposed hot water heating pipes grace your rooms - if your lucky - your allowed a window air conditioner unit.

The laundry area is on the ground floor - when they work - there's about six machines for every hundred apartments(+/-) and you pay for this.

So I guess the point is - if these buildings need $41 Million in repairs - what does that include ?

Is that a project cost to turn these into more than prison size accommodations - or just for repairs/upgrades to such things as air conditioning they don't have - or heating systems that have been neglected and not updated in centuries ?

Just wonder what these numbers are based on and lets hear a study of what the total cost of subsidized relocation would cost tax payers !

Then add in the long term cost of new rents where these people are located to !

[WNYresident]

We dare not look at who earned so much money for doing ----------------------------What ?

Go review seethroughny.org

Check out the Buffalo Housing Authority. Not shy by any means when it comes to paying themselves.

Lets not ask why no one saw this coming and tried to make even the smallest efforts to prepare for it !

Very rarely does anyone in our local "Government" prepare for anything. It's usually a reactive response to a situation instead of a pro-active response. Like preparing for repair items, infrastructure upgrades and in NYS case being proactive with government salaries growing out of hand. Job is only worth so much especially when there is so little accountability for work done.

Its easier to say - lets sell it so someone else can make millions off this new prime real estate.

It's not just easier, it's correct. No one has the right to live at a location they can't afford. Whether that cost is rent, utilities, taxes or needed repairs. If they physically owned the property they could tell any developer to go pound salt. The point is they don't own it. The group can buy it. Once they own it they have the same property rights as any other USA citizen. Right? Only justification to help them out is if they are truly disabled and very elderly where they can't fend for themselves.

This is just another iconic example of the ineffectiveness of our ever growing tax funded Government and its failed agencies.

Which local political party basically control departments like HUD and those apartments?

Some say - lets pay to move these people into other more affordable, subsidized less demand neighborhoods. How is that gonna change the tax dollars being spent ?

More tax dollars could be generated from that property. You just can't have IDA's scamming us property owners by giving away tax breaks. THey get a cut for each deal they give away.

Will the tax revenue from redeveloping this land then pay for the cost of the moved and subsides residents ? Will it insure they finally get better paying jobs or get off tax funded aid ? I don't think so ! - Do you ?

Shouldn't have to and it's not other people's problem. (unless they are truly disabled or elderly and can't fend for themselves) WHen a home owner has to move because they can longer afford their home due to local government mismanagement or lack of skills to run the town do other tax payers fund their move? If rent slowly climbs for people in general is there a government agency that will fund their move? I don't think so.

But that will definitely please those who believe people with money should have those views of the harbor. That will definitely help put millions of dollars into the pockets of developers and their venders.

And it will create jobs.

[joe d.]

$42 MILLION in needed repairs - I doubt this happened over night. Yes, lets not look at the years of ignored needed repairs.

We dare not look at who earned so much money for doing ----------------------------What ?

Lets not ask why no one saw this coming and tried to make even the smallest efforts to prepare for it !

Its easier to say - lets sell it so someone else can make millions off this new prime real estate.

This is just another iconic example of the ineffectiveness of our ever growing tax funded Government and its failed agencies.

Some say - lets pay to move these people into other more affordable, subsidized less demand neighborhoods. How is that gonna change the tax dollars being spent ?

Will the tax revenue from redeveloping this land then pay for the cost of the moved and subsides residents ? Will it insure they finally get better paying jobs or get off tax funded aid ? I don't think so ! - Do you ?

But that will definitely please those who believe people with money should have those views of the harbor. That will definitely help put millions of dollars into the pockets of developers and their venders.

You hear of the "Grand Views" some tenants have
- do you know the size of their kitchens
- you cant have a table in their closet size cooking areas. The interior walls are two inch's think - made of uninsulated drywall.
- There TV sitting area can handle one couch or two recliners and a TV.
- The bathrooms are as small as most homes closets - no his and her sinks in these room.
- The bedrooms can fit one normal mattress and one small dresser - if its a two bedroom they are both the same
- separated by the two inch thick uninsulated drywall partitions.

Exposed hot water heating pipes grace your rooms - if your lucky - your allowed a window air conditioner unit.

The laundry area is on the ground floor - when they work - there's about six machines for every hundred apartments(+/-) and you pay for this.

So I guess the point is - if these buildings need $41 Million in repairs - what does that include ?

Is that a project cost to turn these into more than prison size accommodations - or just for repairs/upgrades to such things as air conditioning they don't have - or heating systems that have been neglected and not updated in centuries ?

Just wonder what these numbers are based on and lets hear a study of what the total cost of subsidized relocation would cost tax payers !

Then add in the long term cost of new rents where these people are located to !

OK....if things are so bad..who is forcing them to continue to live there?...and let's face it...they know they have a great deal!

[sharky]

300 for rent is a joke, they get utilities included . Gas, electric water almost equal that for most people. when you subtract the utilities are they really paying 50 to 150 in rent

it'd be interesting to see how their utility usage compares to similarly sized apartments of people that have to pay their utility bills
I've heard anecdotes of people that have utilities included being really wasteful, like leaving windows open in winter, leaving lights on all the time

[4248]

OH - I thought those stories only applied to people on welfare or HEAP - now we try and stretch even more to blame residents for a totally failed Government program run by well paid Administrators !

[300miles]

The buildings should be sold to private sector...and be put back on the city tax rolls. The present property taxpayers are losing out, and subsidize city services...for which these buildings get for free. These buildings should be forced to pay their fair share.

What facts do you base that statement on?
I've heard that it's always been on the tax rolls and pays the city $600,000 per year in taxes.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

What facts do you base that statement on?
I've heard that it's always been on the tax rolls and pays the city $600,000 per year in taxes.

You want to source that outside of an architect from Chicago? I would love to see the database that shows this information.