Billions of our tax dollars go over seas to support Frances economy -

[4248]

More Obama/Clinton American job killing tactics
- $2.45 Billion tax dollars going to France - killing American jobs - http://www.delawareonline.com/story/...trak/89399730/

[Jeff]

More Obama/Clinton American job killing tactics
- $2.45 Billion tax dollars going to France - killing American jobs - http://www.delawareonline.com/story/...trak/89399730/

Where do you see France in that article?

If you frequent the northeast corridor trains as I do, you will find d this welcome news. Now, when csn I get a 4 hour, high-speed train from buffalo to NYC?

[4248]

The company is based in France.

[Jeff]

The company is based in France.

I see. the Article you linked didn't mention that Alstrom won the bid. Yes, having the same company that makes TGV trains is a bad thing. especially with all the american high speed rail expertise we have....

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

I see. the Article you linked didn't mention that Alstrom won the bid. Yes, having the same company that makes TGV trains is a bad thing. especially with all the american high speed rail expertise we have....

But, but, but there are some low skilled manufacturing guys in a union without work......

[300miles]

The company is based in France.

Had the US supported rail infrastructure the way other countries do, then we might actually have companies based here that have experience building high speed trains. But our govt mostly shuns anything associated with rail, so we have to buy it from other countries.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

Had the US supported rail infrastructure the way other countries do, then we might actually have companies based here that have experience building high speed trains. But our govt mostly shuns anything associated with rail, so we have to buy it from other countries.

As someone who loves and supports HS rail...I know you know better than this.

It's impossible for the US to have a national rail system like other countries. One of the main reasons is we simply have too much ground to cover. It's 1,000 miles, as a crow flies, from Boston > NYC > Philly > Baltimore > DC > Raleigh > Charlotte > Atlanta. It's 500 miles, as a crow flies, from San Fran to San Diego. There is nothing close in Europe to a 1000 mile line. The SF to SD line is similar to Paris to Rome.

What should have happened and what needs to happen is for States to develop HS rail on their own. Ohio tried to do this but failed. New York can't seem to grasp the big picture either. Just think of the value proposition Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse and Albany would have if each of these cities were bookended by Toronto and New York City. Just think of the value Ohio could have had with connecting Cincy, Toledo, Cleveland and Columbus.

We know why it won't work though. Just look at the boondoggle in California after politics gets in the way of process. Instead of connecting the shortest distance of LA to San Diego they start at San Fran and head down...stopping in every podunk town that has an election.

[Jeff]

As someone who loves and supports HS rail...I know you know better than this.

It's impossible for the US to have a national rail system like other countries. One of the main reasons is we simply have too much ground to cover. It's 1,000 miles, as a crow flies, from Boston > NYC > Philly > Baltimore > DC > Raleigh > Charlotte > Atlanta. It's 500 miles, as a crow flies, from San Fran to San Diego. There is nothing close in Europe to a 1000 mile line. The SF to SD line is similar to Paris to Rome.

What should have happened and what needs to happen is for States to develop HS rail on their own. Ohio tried to do this but failed. New York can't seem to grasp the big picture either. Just think of the value proposition Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse and Albany would have if each of these cities were bookended by Toronto and New York City. Just think of the value Ohio could have had with connecting Cincy, Toledo, Cleveland and Columbus.

We know why it won't work though. Just look at the boondoggle in California after politics gets in the way of process. Instead of connecting the shortest distance of LA to San Diego they start at San Fran and head down...stopping in every podunk town that has an election.

I salivate at the idea not having to take a plane to Boston or NYC.

[300miles]

Like with many issues, it has to start at the federal level. Sure, having the states develop their own rail plans might be a good solution but trying to start it that way will fail. To get an economy started around rail technology, we need a national plan. States that decide they do want to develop rail can't be hindered by the state next door not wanting to connect them to anywhere else. A highspeed rail coming out of Chicago would be useless if all the states next to Illinois didn't have tracks to connect it to other cities in other states. It takes leadership that can only be provided at the federal level, even if the ultimate plan is not for federal control.

Agree on the Podunk stops. Any highspeed system should only connect main cities. "Regular" trains that feed into the system should be used for the smaller destinations.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

I salivate at the idea not having to take a plane to Boston or NYC.

Buffalo to Boston via HS rail would still be more of a PITA compared to a flight in my opinion. A "straight" line (BUF-ROC-SYR-ALB-BOS) is over 400 miles. That's twice what i have read as being in the prime zone for HS rail. A flight to Boston is just over an hour. Dealing with airports puts you maybe at 3hrs.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

Like with many issues, it has to start at the federal level. Sure, having the states develop their own rail plans might be a good solution but trying to start it that way will fail. To get an economy started around rail technology, we need a national plan. States that decide they do want to develop rail can't be hindered by the state next door not wanting to connect them to anywhere else. A highspeed rail coming out of Chicago would be useless if all the states next to Illinois didn't have tracks to connect it to other cities in other states. It takes leadership that can only be provided at the federal level, even if the ultimate plan is not for federal control.

Agree on the Podunk stops. Any highspeed system should only connect main cities. "Regular" trains that feed into the system should be used for the smaller destinations.

It appears you don't understand how our Government works. Leadership 'at the federal level' as you put it means Congress. Not the President but Congress. Dancing with Congress on funding for something means you have some woman in Oregon and some guy in Texas (just random examples) having a say as to what happens in NY. Half of Congress is the Senate and only a handful of states would ever be justified in having HS rail connections. Beyond that, you have the House, with even more voices from people who represent constituents that would never be connected.

But even if Congress were to get on the same page, a 'National Plan' is just downright stupid. The US has a land mass of 3,796,742 square miles. France on the other hand has a land mass of 248,600 square miles. Which is about the size of Texas at 268,581 square miles. Again, even if you have the political will to develop HS rail it needs two key items. Dense population centers and proximity to those centers to make a logical connection.

Just as states have state run Turnpikes and State Highways...states should develop HS rail networks. Heck, just look at the NYS funding Erie Canal. Do you think that would have been constructed if NYS waited for Federal leadership?

[Jeff]

Buffalo to Boston via HS rail would still be more of a PITA compared to a flight in my opinion. A "straight" line (BUF-ROC-SYR-ALB-BOS) is over 400 miles. That's twice what i have read as being in the prime zone for HS rail. A flight to Boston is just over an hour. Dealing with airports puts you maybe at 3hrs.

3 hours, plus needing to take a cab or bus to another train station...

Although the flight is short, the train is infinitely more comfortable, doesn't require TSA nonsense, and allows me to work during the entire trip with power and internet (sometimes). Amtrak business class also offers decent food and beverage options included in the ticket price.

I would like to have the option.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

3 hours, plus needing to take a cab or bus to another train station...

Although the flight is short, the train is infinitely more comfortable, doesn't require TSA nonsense, and allows me to work during the entire trip with power and internet (sometimes). Amtrak business class also offers decent food and beverage options included in the ticket price.

I would like to have the option.

Agree 100% on the comfort of trains compared to coach flights. Don't get me wrong, if for pleasure I would take a 5-6hr train from BUF to BOS. For business I'd take a flight.

[300miles]

Heck, just look at the NYS funding Erie Canal. Do you think that would have been constructed if NYS waited for Federal leadership?

The Erie canal didn't connect to any other system outside of NYS, so of course if was a NYS project. And NYS might be just fine having a track that runs from Buff to NYC, especially since there already is a federally planned line that runs interstate along the northern east coast cities with NYC. But if we ever want to have useful rail system that connects NYC to Chicago or SF, then the Federal Govt needs to be in the leadership.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

The Erie canal didn't connect to any other system outside of NYS, so of course if was a NYS project. And NYS might be just fine having a track that runs from Buff to NYC, especially since there already is a federally planned line that runs interstate along the northern east coast cities with NYC. But if we ever want to have useful rail system that connects NYC to Chicago or SF, then the Federal Govt needs to be in the leadership.

There will never be a rail system that connects the East Coast to the West Coast. It's silly to even hope for such a thing. Not every city needs to be connected. Each state should develop their own network and then, maybe, go to the Federal level for interstate or international connections. That's an easier project to implement.

Back to NY, if NYS ever found the will to connect it's 4 major cities without the burden of stopping in every district that votes, that would be an amazing asset to NYS. Not only for the connectivity of cities but also the TOD development that would happen. No way in hell would you get Congress to foot the bill for that.