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Thread: IDA's - new thought started by wnyresident

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by WNYresident View Post
    No one should get a tax break at all... either we all get it or no one does...
    .
    Good point.

    Quote Originally Posted by WNYresident View Post
    I always said if you can pull a real manufacturing company from out of state I could see that.
    Excellent point. But, you may want to look into getting your keyboard fixed. Because it just typed that "no one" should get tax breaks.

    Poltergeist, maybe.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by WNYresident View Post
    Various out of towners not all. No local business needs an out of towner opening up here with an unfair tax advantage to skim their business away.

    When you give incentives to a large manufacturing company to move in they are really not competing locally with established businesses.
    So you want only certain businesses that don't compete with anyone to move in? That severely limits the choices don't you think? The problem is businesses are not beating down our doors to set up shop here. If not incentives (tax breaks) how else to bring business here? Or keep business expansions here rather than opening up another facility in another state?

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by WNYresident View Post
    Example... bass pro will compete with local fishing bait/tackle shops..it's retail... delphi on the other hand really doesn't complete with too many people here at all... thier parts are shipped all over the place.
    I gave this example earlier..... what if the new company offers more jobs?

    Local company "A" has 10 employees, but New Company "B" will hire 200 employees. I don't see why we shouldn't consider some tax break for a company willing to hire more employees. It's not fair to company A, but then they're not really helping the economy as much either.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by 300miles View Post
    I gave this example earlier..... what if the new company offers more jobs?

    Local company "A" has 10 employees, but New Company "B" will hire 200 employees. I don't see why we shouldn't consider some tax break for a company willing to hire more employees. It's not fair to company A, but then they're not really helping the economy as much either.
    I agree but problem with current system is lack of accountability. Too many cases where a company may promise (on application) to hire a certain number of employees but never does. Not to beat a dead horse but look at Lancaster Airport. I have a copy of application whereas they state "0" for question regarding how many employees they plan on hiring. Now why would Lancaster offer IDA's (yes more than one) to Lancaster Airport when they do not plan on hiring? Perfect example of rubber stamping an application without doing some homework. In addition, most pilots housed out of Lancaster Airport are NOT from Lancaster but enjoy cheap hanger rental due to IDA's!!! Bottom line... if we must have IDA's in Erie County, system needs serious overhaul.

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    yes iching, you are right. And there needs to be much better "due diligence" beforehand to be able to decide if the project can yield the number of jobs claimed on the application. I can't speak to the good or bad of the airport deal, but I can see where there may be times to help a company that will not expand jobs, for instance if a company needs to replace major capital equipment or close shop. Better to help them upgrade than to lose jobs and preferably with low cost loans than abatements. Again though, there needs to be some due diligence to decide if the investment is worth the jobs that are being saved. Otherwise why not just give those employees $80,000 each and call it a day! (No, I don't really mean anyone should do that)

    Res, I know you see it as unfair competition, but if you want to expand or create more jobs, you should have the same chance at some sort of help as any other IDA recipient. If you don't want or need the help, that would be your call, but if others do, it's not really unfair competition then, as you would have had the same opportunity (as per 300's example)

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by 300miles View Post
    I gave this example earlier..... what if the new company offers more jobs?

    Local company "A" has 10 employees, but New Company "B" will hire 200 employees. I don't see why we shouldn't consider some tax break for a company willing to hire more employees. It's not fair to company A, but then they're not really helping the economy as much either.
    Why screw the little guy?

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    Quote Originally Posted by WNYresident View Post
    Why screw the little guy?
    That is the other issue, we should not screw small business owners. We need to completely overhaul IDA program to make it fair or scrap it altogether.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by 300miles View Post
    I gave this example earlier..... what if the new company offers more jobs?

    Local company "A" has 10 employees, but New Company "B" will hire 200 employees. I don't see why we shouldn't consider some tax break for a company willing to hire more employees. It's not fair to company A, but then they're not really helping the economy as much either.
    Clearly, according to Res, it depends on the day of the week.

  9. #39
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    Itch, perfect commentary.

    Quote Originally Posted by ichingtheory View Post
    I agree but problem with current system is lack of accountability. Too many cases where a company may promise (on application) to hire a certain number of employees but never does. Not to beat a dead horse but look at Lancaster Airport. I have a copy of application whereas they state "0" for question regarding how many employees they plan on hiring. Now why would Lancaster offer IDA's (yes more than one) to Lancaster Airport when they do not plan on hiring? Perfect example of rubber stamping an application without doing some homework. In addition, most pilots housed out of Lancaster Airport are NOT from Lancaster but enjoy cheap hanger rental due to IDA's!!! Bottom line... if we must have IDA's in Erie County, system needs serious overhaul.
    and IDA must produce something by giving it back to the community inwhich the IDA came from. Example, the airport, employes 2 full time ~2 part time, not of which live in Lancaster. The airplanes are from other towns, the hangar rates and the fuel is so low it lures business away from surrounding airports. Does the IDA benefit the town? No, our taxes are skyrocking because of subsidizing businesses that should not need to be subsidized already by the FAA monies that came out of our pockets. I mean come on, the airport gets 13 million dollars, do you t hink they need three IDA's too?

    Point in case, I do believe smaller businesses should qualify for IDA's just like the bigger business. But I don't think that dentists and law firms should get them, they would move in that area anyways.

  10. #40
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    Oh therising,

    I still think you're alright in my books.

  11. #41
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    Well it is happening again,

    Quote Originally Posted by shortstuff View Post
    and IDA must produce something by giving it back to the community inwhich the IDA came from. Example, the airport, employes 2 full time ~2 part time, not of which live in Lancaster. The airplanes are from other towns, the hangar rates and the fuel is so low it lures business away from surrounding airports. Does the IDA benefit the town? No, our taxes are skyrocking because of subsidizing businesses that should not need to be subsidized already by the FAA monies that came out of our pockets. I mean come on, the airport gets 13 million dollars, do you t hink they need three IDA's too?

    Point in case, I do believe smaller businesses should qualify for IDA's just like the bigger business. But I don't think that dentists and law firms should get them, they would move in that area anyways.


    The Lancaster Airport is requesting another IDA on a hangar. Now that will be what ummmm 4~four IDA's and you and I will have to pick it up.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by WNYresident View Post
    Example... bass pro will compete with local fishing bait/tackle shops..it's retail... delphi on the other hand really doesn't complete with too many people here at all... thier parts are shipped all over the place.
    There is another big difference with Bass Pro....economic impact.

    When a manufacturer ships products to another part of the country or world, when they are paid they are bringing money INTO WNY. If you walk into Bass Pro and buy something that isn't manufactured locally, which is most things, you are actually shipping money OUT of WNY.
    Government is not the solution to our problem. Government is the problem. Ronald Reagan

  13. #43
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    The bottom line is it isn't just IDA's. In NYS we have Empire Zones (for now) and other incentives for businesses. NYS is really forced to do this. The taxes are so astronomical here that NYS has to offer something to avoid losing all of it's businesses to other states.
    Government is not the solution to our problem. Government is the problem. Ronald Reagan

  14. #44
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bioguy231 View Post
    The bottom line is it isn't just IDA's. In NYS we have Empire Zones (for now) and other incentives for businesses. NYS is really forced to do this. The taxes are so astronomical here that NYS has to offer something to avoid losing all of it's businesses to other states.
    We are not forced to do this. Each time this is done it's crapping on another business in NYS that isn't in the empire zones/IDA programs. It's also crapping on each community that has to subsidized the difference that company isn't paying who are in the empire zone/IDA programs.

    WHAT we want to force them to do is stop spending. THAT IS THE GOAL, not make little pockets of less taxed area so it looks like they are trying to fix the problem of spending. WANNA fix health care? STOP giving it as pay to every government employee. Make them pay for it like every other non-government laborer. You'd see a lot movement on the topic once that happened.

  15. #45
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    You're absolutely right in that we need the state government to stop spending like drunken sailors, then taxes would decrease to a point where NYS would be competitive with other states in terms of attracting and retaining businesses.

    In the meantime the state needs to do something to appease businesses. I know if NYS took away the few my business incentives I have, I'd be gone so fast you wouldn't even see me leave.
    Government is not the solution to our problem. Government is the problem. Ronald Reagan

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