Redskin Team name -Kudos to Lancaster Central School District

[Lee Chowaniec]

And then there are those Lancaster residents whose children attended Lancaster schools through high school and who are not passionate in preserving the Redskin name at the cost of alienating any ethnic group.

While understanding the tradition behind the seventy-year-old name, have we not evolved to the point of teaching our children to set aside traditions that offend?

Kudos to the Lancaster Central School District’s (LCSD) administration and its Board of Education (BOE) for being proactive to a situation that could have future unintended consequences. The district set about on a fact-finding mission to hear pro and anti Redskin comments and opinions.

Recognizing the polarizing nature of keeping the Redskin name the Lancaster district in the last few years has begun distancing itself from the Redskins by making subtle changes, even though it has not made any formal decision on the name. The district has stopped ordering the Redskins name on school-issued athletic uniforms. A new football scoreboard does not display an image of the mascot, and the mascot has not appeared at any sports events this year. Students who purchase their own apparel are not restricted from having the Redskin name embroidered on said apparel.

Having held two forums the district maintains no decision on the matter will be made in the near future – at least for the 2015-16 school year.

Distraction

Some of us have come to look at this ‘debate’ as but another distraction that takes away from the primary rationale for having an education system in place; namely, the opportunity for our children to get an education, achieve proficiency and to be successful in whatever endeavor they pursue in their scholastic and future chosen careers.

Lost in all this hullabaloo, as well as the Common Core dispute, sit and stare and the charges made by some that the district is fiscally irresponsible (to the actual accusation of squandering money), the district has been united in response, acting professional and in the best interest of the community (in my opinion).

Lost in the shuffle of controversy and media frenzy is the fact that LCSD has outstandingly improved in its academic performance to the point of receiving local, state and national recognition.

There is an old adage where celebrities declared, ‘I don’t care what they write about me in the papers, any press is good press.” This is not good press. This is press not deserving for a school district that has achieved academic success by leaps and bounds.

As to the charges of fiscal irresponsibility and/or squandering taxpayer money, several hundred people attend a forum on the Redskin name and no more than two residents attended the first two budget work sessions to see and hear how their money is being spent. The fact that 90% of the budget spending increase comes from mandated programs doesn’t seem to resonate with those who claim fiscal irresponsibility; nor does the fact that the district has received $23 million less in state aid over the last five years.

Hopefully these so-called burning issues will not have an adverse impact on the upcoming BOE elections and final budget presentation.

BTW – It should be noted that with the exception of State Supreme Court Justice Mark Montour, no politicos attended the forum – at least that is what I am being told. All the charges of political intrigue seem to be misleading claptrap. Both sides were entitled to use whatever resources necessary to bolster their position – and they did. It’s over, let’s move on.

[4248]

One point to question - are you saying no Politico attended the "Rally" - or are you saying they weren't seated at the prearranged table discussions during the "Forum" ?

I guess Mr.Evert and others aren't considered "Political Players in your mind" ? Just askin don't get twisted Lee. Just because they don't get into the "Predetermined Forum Seats" doesn't mean they weren't involved with and inside the "Save our Mascot Group" -


Who is the "Anonymous Donor" - who paid for the banners and when was the group fund raiser that paid for those banners ? Isn't it convenient this facebook group doesn't have to file any type factual disclosures ?


Yes, Kudos to the school for being all it can be - I personally don't attack teachers because their jobs are stressful . The Board and some Political Players have infiltrated and those people I comment on.

As far as the budget - they make it - I vote on it - I have no ability to alter or change it - so I speak my mind as many do. I have no way to help create reductions for residents who don't use it - I cant stop Admin from over paying Admin - so why should someone in my position sit and get all giggly over them telling me how good they've done.



Give our students the best "Education We Can" - the rest is bull**** !

[Lee Chowaniec]

[QUOTE=4248;1510925]

One point to question - are you saying no Politico attended the "Rally" - or are you saying they weren't seated at the prearranged table discussions during the "Forum" ?

No elected town or village of Lancaster official was seated at any of the 14 forum tables is what I am being told.

I guess Mr.Evert and others aren't considered "Political Players in your mind" ? Just askin don't get twisted Lee. Just because they don't get into the "Predetermined Forum Seats" doesn't mean they weren't involved with and inside the "Save our Mascot Group" -

Who is Mr. Evert. Your previous posts alluded to individuals who are elected officials and would use the forum to further their chances for re-election – at least that is the way I understood it. If you are indicating they worked behind the scenes to support the pro Redskin movement then thye risk of being identified as such risks alienating voters who are anti Redskin team name.

And, I understand there was table consensus given last night that indicated the Redskin name was offensive to the majority of participants and deserving of change

Who is the "Anonymous Donor" - who paid for the banners and when was the group fund raiser that paid for those banners ? Isn't it convenient this facebook group doesn't have to file any type factual disclosures ?

I have heard several rumors as who contributed to the banner and the support group. That doesn’t seem to bother me as it does you. Why should there be disclosure? As I said earlier, both sides are entitled to use whatever resources necessary to advance their cause. As for the FACEBOOK group remark, I don’t do FACEBOOK but I hear it got pretty ugly. But then, so did the process itself with many claims and counter claims by pro and anti pro supporters that border on lunacy.

Yes, Kudos to the school for being all it can be - I personally don't attack teachers because their jobs are stressful . The Board and some Political Players have infiltrated and those people I comment on.

You state: The Board and some Political Players have infiltrated and those people I comment on.

I don’t understand so please explain. What board, what political players and infiltrated what?

As far as the budget - they make it - I vote on it - I have no ability to alter or change it - so I speak my mind as many do. I have no way to help create reductions for residents who don't use it - I cant stop Admin from over paying Admin - so why should someone in my position sit and get all giggly over them telling me how good they've done.

Why do you praise only the teachers and denigrate administrators? Lancaster teachers are deserving of praise but how can you not hold administrators to like status when it is the administrators and the BOE that drive the train and have been responsible for setting curriculum in place that has resulted in position academic change, where the district is considered the most cost-efficient in Western New York and second in the state, has a very high ratio of students to administrators and has brought Lancaster from a 14th BF ranking three years ago to 6th. What am I missing when some FACEBOOK posters are asking for the resignation of the school superintendent.

Give our students the best "Education We Can" - the rest is bull**** !

Now there is something we are in total agreement with!

[4248]

Time will show who is doing what - those Politicians who can - will use their "Opinions" to grease a few skids and avoid real Community issues - I will try and help discuss them along the way.

Being Pro Red Skin Mascot only helps those it matters to - being anti red skin mascot can only hurt a candidate who is foolish enough to push that part of the issue.


As far as who paid for what - no one else seems to care and no one is going to force a "Face Book Front Group" to divulge who helped them - so that's a dead horse too.

The Village approved using tax dollars to advertise this show - I guess tax payers don't care - done deal !

As far as this statement - you "praise only the teachers and denigrate administrators?"
- well I guess I respect the ones in the trench's
- always had issue with those who get way to much pay while standing at a distance pointing the way.

That's my opinion and I don't need to justify it and you paint with way to broad a brush when you use your descriptive freedoms to describe my comments. Calm down Picasso

[Lee Chowaniec]

4248 wrote:
That's my opinion and I don't need to justify it and you paint with way to broad a brush when you use your descriptive freedoms to describe my comments. Calm down Picasso.

Really, you don’t have to justify your opinion? You have no need to openly present facts, data and names to substantiate/justify the spewing out of your conspiracy theories, rumors and innuendo?

When someone challenges your innuendo opinion and asks for validation, that really bothers you and you spin off on a tangent and dare tell them to calm down. In another recent post you call me snarky, look in the mirror 4248.

The saying that one should be civil and agree to disagree in a civil manner doesn't seem to resonate in your mind.

[shortstuff]

[QUOTE=Lee Chowaniec;1511087]

No elected town or village of Lancaster official was seated at any of the 14 forum tables is what I am being told.



Who is Mr. Evert. Your previous posts alluded to individuals who are elected officials and would use the forum to further their chances for re-election – at least that is the way I understood it. If you are indicating they worked behind the scenes to support the pro Redskin movement then thye risk of being identified as such risks alienating voters who are anti Redskin team name.

And, I understand there was table consensus given last night that indicated the Redskin name was offensive to the majority of participants and deserving of change



I have heard several rumors as who contributed to the banner and the support group. That doesn’t seem to bother me as it does you. Why should there be disclosure? As I said earlier, both sides are entitled to use whatever resources necessary to advance their cause. As for the FACEBOOK group remark, I don’t do FACEBOOK but I hear it got pretty ugly. But then, so did the process itself with many claims and counter claims by pro and anti pro supporters that border on lunacy.




You state: The Board and some Political Players have infiltrated and those people I comment on.

I don’t understand so please explain. What board, what political players and infiltrated what?



Why do you praise only the teachers and denigrate administrators? Lancaster teachers are deserving of praise but how can you not hold administrators to like status when it is the administrators and the BOE that drive the train and have been responsible for setting curriculum in place that has resulted in position academic change, where the district is considered the most cost-efficient in Western New York and second in the state, has a very high ratio of students to administrators and has brought Lancaster from a 14th BF ranking three years ago to 6th. What am I missing when some FACEBOOK posters are asking for the resignation of the school superintendent.



Now there is something we are in total agreement with!

Question Lee, who told you there was a consensus indicating that the majority found Redskins offensive? It was reported in the Bee that the media was not able to garner that information one way or another.

[Lee Chowaniec]

[QUOTE=shortstuff;1511329]

Question Lee, who told you there was a consensus indicating that the majority found Redskins offensive? It was reported in the Bee that the media was not able to garner that information one way or another.

Consensus here was a poor word choice. Consensus here was meant to connote acknowledgement/agreement. And no matter what side was taken on the issue there was agreement that the Redskin name is offensive in today’s world. And of course many individuals who will take an anti stance to a popular view will not be vocal and make their opinions public for myriad reasons.

If you are alluding to the following written in the Bee as supporting the pro Redskin name, I think this speaks on the imbalance:

Some other table participants expressed disdain that so much time had been given to opening remarks and creating large charts and using stickers to rank each important statement because it hindered the discussion.

“That was quality work time that waslostandnevertobeseenagain,” said Carter Powell, a 2005 graduate. “When they called time, we just wanted to keep talking. That’s what we should have been doing.”

Powell said he and all but one of his tablemates were anti-mascot, causing an imbalance at individual tables, as well as in the overall discourse.

Of course there was going to be an imbalance as the pro group rallied the troops by hanging banners, passing out literature and bringing in outside guests and speakers. There were 60 standbys that did not get an opportunity to speak.

BTW – I found today’s Buffalo News “Another Voice” very telling in presenting the anti Redskin side.

Another Voice: “Redskin” mascot is offensive and promotes a hostile learning environment.

http://www.buffalonews.com/opinion/a...nment-20150305

[4248]

Really, you don’t have to justify your opinion? You have no need to openly present facts, data and names to substantiate/justify the spewing out of your conspiracy theories, rumors and innuendo?

One only needs to read the first Bufnews articles (and past posts here on Speakupwny in the past few years)- look who has been quoted in the paper - then look at who is considering or who have announced a run for Office - that speaks for it self -

NO I don't have to try and meet your standards or convince you its the opinions of myself and others - just as I don't question your recent praising of the school and its Admin - why - because that's your opinion - I accept that and move on - try it !

When someone challenges your innuendo opinion and asks for validation, that really bothers you and you spin off on a tangent and dare tell them to calm down. In another recent post you call me snarky, look in the mirror 4248.

The saying that one should be civil and agree to disagree in a civil manner doesn't seem to resonate in your mind.

- It does and I am trying - you stating I am not doesn't make it so - did I yell at you - insult you or call you names?

Your over reacting again and using that wide brush - I will post what I believe is valid and true ! If you or anyone else believes its wrong or not to your likeing - I don't care - if its a blatant "Falsehood" prove me wrong - don't expect me to try and convince you - I don't have to !

conspiracy: When one/two or more people have conversations and propose to take actions to create a given out come(Loose description).

Rumors: When people talk about but not "Openly" about a situation/event/plans(Loose description)

[Lee Chowaniec]

The Akron High School lacrosse team is considering boycotting their upcoming game against Lancaster High School over the controversy surrounding Lancaster's "Redskins" nickname

http://www.wgrz.com/story/news/local...ssue/24468629/

Fake Indian charge

http://deadspin.com/new-fake-indian-...mpaign=socialf

[gorja]

I guess, I just don't understand why people from Gowanda, Arizona and Washington, DC, anywhere other than Lancaster were allowed or asked to participate in the debate. Even the meeting in January, John Kane was asked to participate then, a non-resident. Then, the school has an anti-redskin UB professor, Hilary Weaver come to speak to the students. Did the school give equal time to a pro-mascot speaker? For a district who claims they're just exploring the name change, they seemed to have stacked the deck for a name change. Since a name change seems pretty evident, my choice for a non-derogatory name is the "Lancaster Noble Savages"

[Jeff]

I guess, I just don't understand why people from Gowanda, Arizona and Washington, DC, anywhere other than Lancaster were allowed or asked to participate in the debate. Even the meeting in January, John Kane was asked to participate then, a non-resident. Then, the school has an anti-redskin UB professor, Hilary Weaver come to speak to the students. Did the school give equal time to a pro-mascot speaker? For a district who claims they're just exploring the name change, they seemed to have stacked the deck for a name change. Since a name change seems pretty evident, my choice for a non-derogatory name is the "Lancaster Noble Savages"

Does Lancaster have a Native American population?

Does it matter to you if Native Americans find the name offensive?

I'm really just asking. I think if the only argument the pro-redskin crowd has that its "Tradition" then thats a losing argument.

As a caucasian I'm not going to pretend to know if the word is offensive or not, but I will tell you that the term was used in my highschool regularly as an offensive term for our large Native American population.

[shortstuff]

I guess, I just don't understand why people from Gowanda, Arizona and Washington, DC, anywhere other than Lancaster were allowed or asked to participate in the debate. Even the meeting in January, John Kane was asked to participate then, a non-resident. Then, the school has an anti-redskin UB professor, Hilary Weaver come to speak to the students. Did the school give equal time to a pro-mascot speaker? For a district who claims they're just exploring the name change, they seemed to have stacked the deck for a name change. Since a name change seems pretty evident, my choice for a non-derogatory name is the "Lancaster Noble Savages"

I was enlightened on the fact by people who were trying to get into the forum, that it was skewed. More people against the name had better assess for some reason. That said, IMO the decision had already been made so stop the dog and pony show school board. I understand all sides of the isle on this-- but today we need to come to grips with the notion that anything offends someone. I wish we can use this energy to challenge budgets!

[WNYresident]

A question I have is who picked the name originally?

[Lee Chowaniec]

I guess, I just don't understand why people from Gowanda, Arizona and Washington, DC, anywhere other than Lancaster were allowed or asked to participate in the debate. Even the meeting in January, John Kane was asked to participate then, a non-resident. Then, the school has an anti-redskin UB professor, Hilary Weaver come to speak to the students. Did the school give equal time to a pro-mascot speaker? For a district who claims they're just exploring the name change, they seemed to have stacked the deck for a name change. Since a name change seems pretty evident, my choice for a non-derogatory name is the "Lancaster Noble Savages"

And would that have been fair having only Lancaster residents appear at the forums when only 0.2% of the 40,000 Lancaster School District residents are Native American and where only 16 of the near 6,000 student body are Native Americans?

Do you believe Lancaster is isolated from the rest of the state and or country on this issue? This has become viral and is being nationally discussed.

Gorja, I admire your posts because of the research you do and the facts you present. Please do some research and then answer:

• Who or what entity precipitated these fact-finding, educational forums? Who put the pressure on the school district to open this sensitive issue to the public? I think you will be surprised to discover it was not either the pro or anti Redskin name parties.

• Why are people claiming the recent forum was skewed and favored the anti Redskin name? Weren’t the tables to be set up with equal numbers from both sides?

• Some tables had no shows. Did the no shows favor one side over the other?

• Three of the four introductory speakers at the recent forum were pro Redskin – yet the anti group is being looked at as being favored.

• Research how many New York schools have already dropped like offensive Native American team references. ancaster is now only one of three New York school districts carrying the Redskin name. Perhaps they also see the light at the end of the tunnel regarding ‘repercussions’; perhaps legal challenges down the road.

• Do you personally believe it is not offensive to use a name that is offensive to someone based on your personal judgment and based on I meant no harm? Gee, there are not many like you in my neighborhood, and it is a tradition here to use the term without offense, so I have the right to continue that tradition. Is this what this community is all about?

• Why the claptrap about non Lancaster residents at the forums? Both sides used outside resources and the one paid to have supporters flown in from other states.

• Do you think it’s commendable for pro Redskin parents to use their student children as pawns to further their agenda when these same children will be at sporting activities in towns where there is a larger population of Native Americans and who take offense at the name?

I ask these things because although I had three children who attended the Lancaster school system right through high school I never heard them use the word Redskin as being a sacred tradition. I have difficulty seeing the importance of maintaining the name as I am not a Redskin and don’t belong to the sacred old-boys-club – as do many of the residents who moved into the community in the last few decades.

Unfortunately, as 4248 alluded to, this has become political and will only get nastier. Lancaster is in the national big picture now. It’s not the press some of us would like to see especially when Lancaster has significantly improved in academic performance.

Which will favor a Lancaster student more when applying at a college or university: “I was a Redskin or I came from a public school district that was ranked in the top ten of 98 public schools in Western New York?”

[4248]

_ Who or what entity precipitated these fact-finding, educational forums? Who put the pressure on the school district to open this sensitive issue to the public? I think you will be surprised to discover it was not either the pro or anti Redskin name parties.
Then who was it - you act as if you know - Wait a second here Lee - didn't you bash me for suggesting it wasn't just the "School Admin" - didn't you bash me for saying someone else had been pushing the "Pro Mascot Group" and I was out of line asking who paid for the banners and who the "Anonymous Financier" was who paid to fly in those two Pro-Mascot people ?

Now you tell Gorja to "Do your research" after you said I was spreading "Innuendo and Claptrap" - you got big ones bud !
•
Unfortunately, as 4248 alluded to, this has become political and will only get nastier. Lancaster is in the national big picture now.

Wow you do love to dance on your fence - Lee states "I think you will be surprised to discover it was not either the pro or anti Redskin name parties." - Now your spreading innuendo and claptrap - back up your statements with some facts -

You denied it was "Political" now you say - "This has become Political and will get nastier" - back that up - what Politicians are behind this - who's gonna make it get "Nastier"

You see its easy sitting on the fence throwing stones - don't take a side so you can blame everyone while accepting no personal accountability.

Must be nice - while some of us get pummeled and labeled for actually standing up - even after taking a beating - you stand back and demand your the only truly correct voice out in the woods. OH - wait I forgot you go to meetings and report on things - That's cool !- Thanks !

Your a good voice as far as passing information in a relatively unbiased manner - a warrior you are not. So don't take others to task for what you dare not do - take a stand - get off the fence - or stop throwing stones at those who actually engage.

Your a hill top adviser - come down to the street level ! Enjoy the Board Meetings - do your reporting - thanks for your time.