Town of Clarence agrees to construct new State police barracks

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

$496,800 X 25 years = $12,420,000

The projected revenue is based on what numbers? What other rinks business models are they using for estimates?

Let's start with how much does the Eastern Hills Mall pay in property taxes? Beyond the idiots who don't know the meaning of the words they use, for those who want to tax a hard line on spending 'taxpayers funds'...you need to look at the complete other end of the spectrum at the potential loss of revenue. How big of a dent would it put in the Clarence budget if the Eastern Hills Mall folded?

Then let's talk about 25%. At the least, 1 in 4 malls are going to close in the next 15 years. The galleria is not going to close. The blvd is already seeing an investment. I think the odds of the Eastern Hills mall lasting without making serious changes is pretty damn high. So this is what you do. You pivot.

[WNYresident]

Let's start with how much does the Eastern Hills Mall pay in property taxes? Beyond the idiots who don't know the meaning of the words they use, for those who want to tax a hard line on spending 'taxpayers funds'...you need to look at the complete other end of the spectrum at the potential loss of revenue. How big of a dent would it put in the Clarence budget if the Eastern Hills Mall folded?

Then let's talk about 25%. At the least, 1 in 4 malls are going to close in the next 15 years. The galleria is not going to close. The blvd is already seeing an investment. I think the odds of the Eastern Hills mall lasting without making serious changes is pretty damn high. So this is what you do. You pivot.

We don't know if the hockey rink will pay property taxes because the building will be owned by the tax payers. Right? It's bonded with the property/business owners carrying the paper. If the property is owned by the Town I'm going to assume $0 property taxes. There is a dent for ya.

One factor we do know is the mall is paying taxes now and if it closes someone will purchase the property. I don't think a prime piece of property would sit long. Look how busy transit/main are at that location. Once purchased as long as incentives are not given the new owners would continue to pay property taxes where as the town owned hockey rink would not.

One saving factor the Galleria has is out of town shoppers. I don't think the area could support the mall and others if shoppers from out of the area didn't visit.

Why pivot to something we have seen in the past not work? Government subsidized sports complexes for the most part do not generate more business around them.

[NY The Vampire State]

The town of Clarence could exist just fine without the mall if they spent the money they do have the right way. Here we are 4 years later without the hockey rink and what do you know?... The mall is still there.

[WNYresident]

Anyone know what the mall pays in property tax?

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

The town of Clarence could exist just fine without the mall if they spent the money they do have the right way. Here we are 4 years later without the hockey rink and what do you know?... The mall is still there.

You're an idiot. Seriously.

[NY The Vampire State]

You're an idiot. Seriously.

Thank You

What government entity did you retire from?

When you get a clue that businesses don't exist to feed the government you can come back to this thread. Its not about getting MORE tax money, it's about how they spend it. Get a hint pal.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

Thank You

What government entity did you retire from?

When you get a clue that businesses don't exist to feed the government you can come back to this thread. Its not about getting MORE tax money, it's about how they spend it. Get a hint pal.

I own my own business you idiot. You're simply a small mind. It's ok. Someone has to be at the bottom.

[WNYresident]

Lefty,

If the mall closed you don't think that the property would not be purchased?

[gorja]

$227,590.53 town/county
$310,761.30 school

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

If the mall closed you don't think that the property would not be purchased?

Would it be purchased? Maybe. Why Amherst/Clarence are healthy areas it's not like there is a line out the door to own that much land/square footage on Transit Rd.


Going further, being purchased used v. left to rot is much different. As Gorja already pointed out, it's a pretty hefty tax bill.

[NY The Vampire State]

Speaking to the subject:

Michael Patterson said he sees that the Town has done a lot of work on this and that the
Town Board believes it is a good expenditure. He has not seen any proposal to the citizens to
justify why the Board thinks the Town will benefit from this.
He is here as a citizen to participate in making the decision on this expenditure. It is difficult
without any information to review from the Town. He feels the Town should have prepared a document for the citizens to review to see if
they thought this proposal was a good idea. Mr. Patterson gave examples of other towns in the country where the
leaders gave the citizens information before they voted to spend tax dollars.
He does not feel he was informed about this at all.


Councilman Kolber said this is not to actually spend this money. We have to authorize the
bonding before anything else can take place. This is driven by two factors,
one of which we have known for quite some time that the
NYS Police’s lease is almost up. Their presence in the Town
keeps us from having our own police force that has been estimated to cost 8 to 9 million dollars
per year. They do a great job for us. The building restrictions are coming from the State Police
and has to be as they require. Councilman Kolber said the other issue is the enhancements required for our court system
according to the Court Administration. There are numerous shortfalls.
Councilman Kolber said we are elected to make decisions that will benefit the Town. This
is the beginning of the project. The Board has to authorize the bonding so that we can move
forward to obtain more details of the project.

Mr. Patterson said this should be in writing to the citizens so that they are involved in the
process. He does not feel this is being done right.

Town Attorney Lawrence Meckler said this is so early in the process. This will come back
to the Town Board and the public many times with the details laid out.
Mr. Patterson said it is moving right along without first notifying the public.
Supervisor Hartzell said they started working on this in 2012 and since then there have
been articles in the Bee, the Buffalo News and the Sun. He has only received two emails from
people who were interested. He does not understand why there is not more in
terest with the amount of money. It is not for lack of exposure.

Councilman Casilio said he believes the taxpayers know we run a lean Town. Our tax rate
is dollars below other towns. It is locking the State Police in for the next 20 years. When you are
negotiating an agreement like that, you cannot go public with it. At the least, it is going to save
the taxpayers money in the long run. They are also to provide safety and that is part of this too.
Mr. Patterson said they are not providing effective public participation. It should be on the
website.

Michael Powers, Town Justice thanked everyone
involved with this project. It is a huge
undertaking. It has been in the papers. People hav
e had the opportunity to respond. He thinks
that they think it is a good idea. It is badly needed. It will save 8 to 9 million a year and take care
of some serious deficiencies. We have people charged with violent felonies, violent crimes, and
prisoners, domestic violent victims in the hallways, confidential areas and in the same room with
traffic violations. He gives the Board credit to be proactive in this
situation. We have one of the busiest courts in the area and operate in 19th century facilities.

Councilman Casilio said it will not only be safer for the court personnel, but for the citizens too.

Mr. Powers said the public is the number one concern.

Supervisor Hartzell noted for the record that after advertising in the Sunday Buffalo News,
we had one resident here to comment tonight

[NY The Vampire State]

What's going to happen if the voters reject the bond?

[NY The Vampire State]

Councilman Casilio stated that the State will be paying the town rent on the proposed
Court Facilities Building. Pam stated that approximately 46% of the building will be used by the town (Justice Court and Erie County Sheriff’s offices) and the NYS Police will occupy 54% of the facility however, they are not paying 54% of the Bond.
Councilman Casilio stated that it would cost the town more money if we had our own police department.

Got to love this guy, Casilio... once again he makes it look like they are doing us a favor when in reality they are actually burdening the town. It never came down to the ultimatum of building this building OR ELSE create the Clarence Police Department.

And Kolber told us numerous times, don't worry this project is "revenue neutral".