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Thread: Will 2009 witness the third wave of socialism in America?

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    Member Riven37's Avatar
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    Will 2009 witness the third wave of socialism in America?

    The article below may help those who doesn't understand what we're facing in 2009


    Only the beginning

    Franklin Roosevelt's New Deal was only the first wave of meaningful socialism to invade America. Unlike his wife and many around him, FDR was no socialist ideologue. He was rather a talented charismatic politician who was willing to try socialism (without calling it that) if it would advance his career.

    The New Deal which he ushered into Washington in 1933 was the first full-force wave of socialism to hit these shores. There had been flirtations with it in the past. The New Deal yanked it out from the fringes of the body politic and put it into full play.

    The Great Society

    The second wave of socialism came to America in 1965 when Lyndon Johnson, following his landslide victory, introduced his Great Society, which vastly expanded the government even more.

    But this time, there was a new twist: Along with big government and economic socialism (under the misleading slogan "War on Poverty"), the sixties era took an ugly turn when cultural Marxism emerged — appealing largely to young people who had enjoyed many great advantages of American society, and yet rebelled against it. Some of that was driven by LBJ's going to war in Vietnam. His hard-core base then turned against him. But there were issues beyond that — issues more fundamental.

    Many of the baby-boom kids were angry with their parents, angry with all authority, and resentful of American values in general. Some of them took the counter-culture only so far and then grew up and went back to the mainstream. Many others faded from public view, only to emerge a few years later advancing anti-Americanism in universities, the media, and government. At the core in the sixties were subversives — a small but violent cadre.

    Note here, we are not talking about the civil rights revolution which took place at about the same time.

    The third wave?

    In 2008, we may be about to embark on the third (and who knows — the final?) wave of socialism.

    Barack Obama seems to be a poster child for both the 1933 brand of socialism and the 1965 variety. Every policy plank in his program clearly indicates he wants to carry the crusade to what politicians of his ilk see as the logical conclusion.

    In years past, there were anti-communist socialists, or at least socialists who considered themselves as such. But since socialism basically is communism on a slow train, more have come (tacitly if not overtly) to embrace basic tenets of the harder Marxism, if not always its practitioners (i.e., Joseph Stalin).

    Naming our enemies

    In the past, socialists and many liberals have had a tendency to place themselves firmly in the camp of the "anti-anti-communists." Today, they are in the successor category of "anti-anti-terrorists." Anything that's anti-American, they're for. It's gotten to be a habit. And we are not talking about sincere pacifists or the genuine (however naïve) belief that the best way to avoid war is unilateral disarmament. We are talking about those who have problems with America on two fronts: In their view, our society does not (to use an Obama phrase) "spread the wealth around" enough, and secondly, preparing America to resist its enemies makes us the "bad guys."

    National Security

    Consider the fact that Joseph Biden, the Democrat vice-presidential candidate, declared that because of a President Obama's perceived (we say real) inexperience (and his naiveté about the threats facing America), this nation would face an international crisis within the first six months to test the new administration. Obama himself has said he'll sit down without pre-conditions with the world's worst thugs.

    Consider this warning from Center for Security Policy President Frank Gaffney in the TV ad campaign by Let Freedom Ring:

    "When we see candidates taking positions that others think convey the determination neither to use military power nor to ensure that they have it at their disposal should it be necessary, they are conveying to our enemies weakness. And weakness invites aggression."

    "Spreading the wealth around"

    Let Freedom Ring next spotlights a small businessman dubbed as "Mad Mike":

    "I'm thinking of expanding my business. And I could grow my business by 20 or 30 more employees. But I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to take the risk if Obama becomes president.... I can't take any more [tax] increases. People like Obama have never had to meet a payroll.... They say they know what it's like to run a small business, but they don't."

    Higher taxes on income, capital gains, Social Security, and Medicare would kill jobs, discourage investment, and make the economic slump worse — likely a whole lot worse.

    The life issue

    LFR then features the Rev. Frank Pavone — a Catholic priest, and national director of Priests for Life — who says there is no more fundamental issue than life itself:

    "If a politician can't respect the life of a little baby, how is he or she supposed to respect your life and mine? That politician believes in a different kind of government than what our Founding Fathers established."

    As a state senator, Barack Obama fought against a bill that would have preserved the life of a child who was born after a botched abortion.

    "Health" care

    Obama's universal health care plan would move an estimated 32 million to 52 million from private coverage to government "care." Long waiting lists, lagging technology, and higher taxes in Canada (which forbids private health care) have sent many Canadians rushing from their "single payer" system (which Obama has defined as ideal) to the USA for the care they need. Our present health care is not perfect (how can it be, when it's about half socialized as it is?), but this would drive the final nail in the coffin of what is — for all its shortcomings — the best health care system in the world.

    The enemies of free speech are on the march (Part 14)

    Behind that velvety resonant voice with its "change" rhetoric, Barack Obama is a man with a jack-boot mentality. He has shown no hesitancy in trying to shut up anyone who disagrees with him — or even works for someone who does.

    In the final days of the election cycle, he kicked three newspaper reporters off his plane. The Washington Times, The New York Post, and the Dallas Morning News have one thing in common: They all editorially endorsed John McCain. At the same time, the reporters (not part of the editorial staff) were doing their jobs and playing fair with the candidate. That didn't matter. Their papers preferred the enemy, so the reporters would be punished.

    This is in line with socialist Democrat plans to shut down conservative talk radio. Shades of Venezuela's Chavez, Cuba's Castro, and the old Soviet Union's Pravda.

    The apple-polishers

    I have had it with conservative columnists and activists who have made brownie points with Obama — either directly or by cheap shots at McCain and Palin — possibly angling for more cocktail party invites in D.C.'s Georgetown, the Upper West Side of Manhattan, some Malibu mansion, or maybe (wow!) state dinners at the White House in the next four years.

    ACORN and other cheats

    An Obama presidency will strengthen the socialists' hands in their ongoing effort to steal future elections (just as they have worked to steal this one) through their thug pals at ACORN and partisan vote certifiers in public office who have prostituted the responsibility with which they have been entrusted.

    A one-party country?

    There is little patience here with the pipe-dreamers on the right who assume that Obama will over-reach so badly as to create a Republican backlash a la 1994.

    Wishful thinking at its worst. With the presidency and both houses of Congress firmly in their grasp, the socialists will quickly act to sew up a permanent majority for themselves. Not only will they try to silence their opposition, they will put some 20 million illegal aliens into citizenship (who will then vote Democrat) and give D.C. two reliably Democrat senators.

    The socialist-oriented education establishment will be emboldened further in shedding all pretenses at honest scholarship and will redouble its efforts to teach your kids and grandkids to grow up to be reliable socialists like their school role models.

    Backlash? Don't make me laugh. That assumes there will be a Republican Party around in the future or that Sarah Palin (or someone like her) will have a chance to pick up the pieces in four years.

    © Wes Vernon


    November 3, 2008
    Wes Vernon, RA analyst
    Riven37
    _________
    All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent. Thomas Jefferson

  2. #2
    Member wheresthesun's Avatar
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    RIVEN---did we get any "perdictions" this year?

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    Member speaker's Avatar
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    What a bunch of hogwash, riv.

    A lot of Roosevelt's programs are still intact today. They pulled us out of the depression and gave the young men jobs. There were so many good ones that they never needed to be touched and relieved the country of high anxiety.

    Any corruptions have happened since then.

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    Unregistered Sock Puppet's Avatar
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    I think this is a really good article. Socialists and cultural Marxists are the true enemy of what The United States of America is supposed to be.

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    Member speaker's Avatar
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    The people of the US have been clamoring for changes in health care and the health care industry, including pharmaceutical companies. Please give this a chance before you use a bunch of rhetoric.

    The founders of the Constitution had no idea of the girth and size of the future population, but I think it was written in such a way that the health and welfare of all citizens of the nation, was a goal.

    Corporate welfare was not in the plans, IE. the steel companies are waiting in line, now, for a bailout.

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    Member Save Us's Avatar
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    Wonderful article Riven,

    It is sad that people think the NY model works well as an economic engine for growth...obviously that is not the case,

    I am incredulous that anyone in NY could argue with the tenets of the article since NYers would know more than anyone else that socialist ideologies do not belong in a free market economy.

    What people forget is that there 401k pension etc is all based on the free market economy.

    NY doesn't allow for capital appreciation through stocks ,, in fact just the opposite,, they take, spend and generate nothing.

    A political leader functions best when they create a fertile environment for business growth, and administrate the functions of a civic state, no more.

    I challenge anyone to do research to show that FDR's policies were well regarded by today's economists. I think you will find they were not.

    New Deal FDR economic policies are just a redistribution of wealth that does nothing to build the very free market foundations so necessary for our very existence.

    Socialism does not work,

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by speaker View Post
    The people of the US have been clamoring for changes in health care and the health care industry, including pharmaceutical companies. Please give this a chance before you use a bunch of rhetoric.

    The founders of the Constitution had no idea of the girth and size of the future population, but I think it was written in such a way that the health and welfare of all citizens of the nation, was a goal.

    Corporate welfare was not in the plans, IE. the steel companies are waiting in line, now, for a bailout.

    How would you "control" a free market economy?

    the price of goods and services are what the market can bear and people are willing to pay.

    Now if everyone should get health care now that is socialism, pure and simple.

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    Unregistered Sock Puppet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speaker View Post
    The people of the US have been clamoring for changes in health care and the health care industry, including pharmaceutical companies. Please give this a chance before you use a bunch of rhetoric.

    The founders of the Constitution had no idea of the girth and size of the future population, but I think it was written in such a way that the health and welfare of all citizens of the nation, was a goal.

    Corporate welfare was not in the plans, IE. the steel companies are waiting in line, now, for a bailout.
    You're entitled to your opinion, but there's nothing in The Federalist Papers or The Anti-Federalist Papers to support such a claim.

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    Unregistered Enough's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Save Us View Post
    How would you "control" a free market economy?

    the price of goods and services are what the market can bear and people are willing to pay.

    Now if everyone should get health care now that is socialism, pure and simple.
    Instead of just repeating what Save Us said I figured I'd just use his post and say "Agreed"....

    Also, who are these "people" that have been clamoring for changes in healthcare???

    The only people clamoring for healthcare changes are those left wing politicians that have been using it as a sales pitch for election. They keep telling people they "deserve this" and in typical fashion the sheep just keep following people like Hilary right over the cliff!!!

    The same people that are "clamoring" for healthcare would also say cat food tastes like tuna fish if the liberals said so!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by speaker View Post
    The people of the US have been clamoring for changes in health care and the health care industry, including pharmaceutical companies. Please give this a chance before you use a bunch of rhetoric.

    The founders of the Constitution had no idea of the girth and size of the future population, but I think it was written in such a way that the health and welfare of all citizens of the nation, was a goal.

    Corporate welfare was not in the plans, IE. the steel companies are waiting in line, now, for a bailout.

    The health of it's citizens? Were talking about people who had slaves!

    You are right people have been screaming for change, people are looking for health care THEY can afford, for THEMSELVES. Were not looking to spend MORE of our money to care for the lazy!

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    I think the major issues sorrounding health care is the simple fact that, that ONE sector of our lives has become prohibitively expensive. Free market? Who can afford health care in the country except the super rich? Honestly. We shouldnt 'need' to pool our money together as a country in order to pay for a few procedures/preventative care (also known as health insurance)

    Medicals costs ARE out rageous. Pure and simple. And best health care in the US? WTF are you smoking?!

    The US is far from the best, though not the worst, it IS with out a doubt, the most expensive of ANY industrialized country in the world by a HUGE margin.

    If you break your arm it shouldnt bankrupt you. But it will. Now people come up with all kinds of ecuses for the medical field as to why its expensive, fact is, they are greedy. that is a fact. That greed has been unchecked. And also, because its been unchecked and they continue to charge more and more, insurance premiums go up and up and up until people cant afford to pay the insurance.

    Its like this.

    For my dad, who had Medicare, (he was FORCED on to it btw, he didnt want it) And senior Choice, to get a cholesterol test done, it was $33 for his insurance company.

    For me, who has no health insurance its $150.

    Now again, peiople make excuses, that because medicare, and kalieda health have more tests done, its cheaper... I call that BS.

    I call it price gouging pure and simple. And you, as the consumer, have no recourse.

  12. #12
    Member Save Us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FMD View Post
    I think the major issues sorrounding health care is the simple fact that, that ONE sector of our lives has become prohibitively expensive. Free market? Who can afford health care in the country except the super rich? Honestly. We shouldnt 'need' to pool our money together as a country in order to pay for a few procedures/preventative care (also known as health insurance)

    Medicals costs ARE out rageous. Pure and simple. And best health care in the US? WTF are you smoking?!

    The US is far from the best, though not the worst, it IS with out a doubt, the most expensive of ANY industrialized country in the world by a HUGE margin.

    If you break your arm it shouldnt bankrupt you. But it will. Now people come up with all kinds of ecuses for the medical field as to why its expensive, fact is, they are greedy. that is a fact. That greed has been unchecked. And also, because its been unchecked and they continue to charge more and more, insurance premiums go up and up and up until people cant afford to pay the insurance.

    Its like this.

    For my dad, who had Medicare, (he was FORCED on to it btw, he didnt want it) And senior Choice, to get a cholesterol test done, it was $33 for his insurance company.

    For me, who has no health insurance its $150.

    Now again, peiople make excuses, that because medicare, and kalieda health have more tests done, its cheaper... I call that BS.

    I call it price gouging pure and simple. And you, as the consumer, have no recourse.

    Ideally in a free market a company would come by and charge less for better service.

    How do you fix it? Is Health care a right guaranteed by the constitution? Should it be?

    again.. how do you fix it, other than regulation.

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    As far as quality of healthcare, America lags behind. The huge amounts of money used and paid for it, doesn't guarantee we get it. Yes to regulations.

    Healthcare and education is not a free market because those who handle it also decide on all aspects of it, and of course the bottom line with them is money. It's evolved into something much different than a free market. There is little competition for those who hold and control the health industry.

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    Big business is part of the problem. An aspirin should not cost $15 in a hospital.

    While I agree R+D costs alot for new medications, a decade after the pill comes out, it still shouldnt be a bankrupt you or die, type of deal.



    Also administration costs in the medical field are outrageous. When my mom started at Buffalo Psychiatric Center in the late 1980's there was no Director of Nursing for almost 1000 patients. When she retired in 2003 there was a director, 2 assistant directors, and 2 other assitant assistant directors (i forget what my mom called them) all with secretary's...

    It gets better....

    patient count when Mom retired: 245!!!!!

    Between administrative costs, medical equipment costs, and medication costs, the cost of medical treatment has become then umber one most expensive section of our lives.

    And, not only that, but say you get hurt, and your in a coma, and you own your home, and someone calls 911 and they take you to the hospital where you get care. They find out who you are, and they take everything you own or will own forever, to pay those costs in which you did not agree to.

    Yet illegals get it all FREE!

    My dad spent 2 months in the hospital in 2002 for a collapsed lung, total cost of his stay, was $800,000 and then the hospital sent us a bill 3 months later expecting us to pay a $350 bill for x-rays they 'forgot' to submit to the insurance company in time. And expected us to pay for it...

    Another example...

    I had a pimple, on my left eye over the summer, it was right on the tip of my eye lid, about the size of a marble.

    I went to my regular doctors office, and explained to them, I do not have the money for a specialist, and i have no insurance.

    They gave me a referral for 2 specialists. No one at the doctors office would touch it.

    Option A) wanted $800 up front in cash, with a possible $400 charge afterward.

    Option B) would 'attempt' to get me on that NY free health care crap, or some other insurance before theyd even talk to me....

    I cant afford insurance thats why I dont have any.

    I picked option C, which i met with alot of opposition from my doctors office.

    I went to my mothers, too a sewing needle under a lighter for about a minute...
    let it cool, put on steril rubber gloves, got a mirror, and popped it myself. Drained the puss myself. It stung for about 30 seconds, bled a lil bit. Mom gave me some anti biotic ointment to put on it for a couple of days.

    So, these 'specialists' were going to do that, for $800? WTF?

    Medical care in this county has turned into the biggest rip off. and the front line doctors are nothing more than the first wave to squeeze money out of you.

    Btw, to see a nurse practioner, it cost me $50 for 10 minutes.

    I am now in the market for a new doctor.

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    And has anyone noticed that your doctor will never look into your throat to see if you have a strp infection. I remember them not only looking in, but swabbing your throat with a purple stuff which took care of it.

    They act like it's an absolutely disgusting thing to ask them to do that. Must send you to a specialist.

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