Why is the City of Buffalo schools funded differently that our surrounding towns?

[grump]

Linda D I never said the federal govt ran the schools...I said a federal judge undertook busing. As for the magnet schools, it was a clever idea that achieved very little and likely weakened the district overall. And let's don't even get into the unwritten admission policy that made it easier for the politically connected to get their kids into the magnet schools. Griffin was neither a family member nor a hero. I was simply reciting what he did; I wasn't endorsing it. As for the magnet school plan it worked so well that the minority population are the large large majority in the Buffalo schools. And by any responsible measure the buffalo school system is an abject failure. It worked so well that now parent groups are demanding the the state step in and take over the system. The whole movement began with the ultimately forlorn effort to "fix" a problem. As happens so often with social engineering the medicine is slowly killing the patient.

[Bringthetruth]

Mark Goldman already did in this in City on the Lake, and the federal government did NOT take over the schools. They ordered the Buffalo schools to find a means to end the segregation in the public schools because the Buffalo Board of Education was found guilty of deliberately aiding and abetting segregation, primarily by allowing white students to transfer out of the East High School attendance zone on specious grounds so that EHS became 100% African American or Hispanic despite the fact that the attendance district included significant numbers of white students attending other Buffalo public high schools.



Actually, I think that some did but many others hid out in the Catholic school system, so much so that the Bishop of Buffalo ordered the schools to stop allowing transfers from the public schools without good reason. Of course, the Catholic schools were pretty independent then, and always desperate to increase their enrollments, so most didn't question parents as to why they were transferring their children. At least two Buffalo Catholic elementary schools, one in NW Buffalo and one on the East Side, were notorious for being openly segregated in defiance of the bishop's order. Both are now closed. In fact, plans to consolidate 4 struggling Catholic schools on the East Side were sunk because the three all white parishes didn't want to merge with St Lukes, which was mostly black.

On the other hand, many Catholic schools embraced not only integration but diversity, most notably Cathedral School, which is now the Catholic Academy of West Buffalo.



I imagine that you'd have been really good making excuses for de jure segregation in the South by pretending that African Americans liked segregation. Keep shovelling the manure.

Pretending racism doesn't exist doesn't make it go away, and the racism that permeates the Buffalo area, but especially the city, is a big reason why the public schools suck. It was true in the 1950s and in the 1970s and it's true today as well, only today it's moved from the classrooms and teaching staff into the schools administration and school board.



BS as usual.



Is Jimmy Griffin some relative of yours or just your hero? Maybe you should actually find out what the Buffalo integration plan was before you make stupid generalizations. The primary component in the plan was the introduction of magnet schools to bring about integration voluntarily. Relatively few Buffalo students were "forced" to attend specific schools, and those that were, attended schools some distance away but certainly NOT all the way across the city. No kids from NB were forced to attend schools in SP or vice versa. Some students may have chosen to attend magnets on opposite ends of the city, but of course that wouldn't fit your scenario.

Linda you have to be the most honest one here when it comes to the truth about this type of topic .

[steven]

students may have chosen to attend magnets on opposite ends of the city, but of course that wouldn't fit your scenario.

don't the old magnets still outperform the other schools? My kids are out of school but from the folks I know it seems the most stable acting kids come from performing arts, the culinary school, Hutch Tech etc.

Just an observation from a limited pool so not sure if that's accurate or not but you seem to keep up with this stuff.

[grump]

Linda, as we all know, enrollment at a magnet school came to the politically connected far more easily than to the meritorious. But thats why we all love Buffalo, the city of good neighbors connected to politicians. For those who couldn't finagle their way into the charter schools they were left to the regular schools where busing was the rule. As for your idiotic comment that the ability to chose one' s school didn't fit with my world view, I'm all for choice! It would've been nice had the choice been real and decisions been made on the merits...of course, the system self-corrected and people fed the city when they recognized the corruption. As for the judge who oversaw the system, he viewed his handiwork and sent his kids to Catholic school (those racist institutions you attack. Send your email to BO, maybe he' ll use it one of his anti-Catholic rants.) And the superintendent fled to Arkansas rather than stay and watch the disaster unfold. If you think the Buffalo schools are a success God bless you. As I said every responsible measure says otherwise.

[Genoobie]

I am a teacher in Buffalo and there are some problems with what you say. Especially regarding "every responsible measure". I suppose you don't necessarily think, for instance, that a one-legged runner would finish a 100-meter race at the same time that a two-legged runner would. Perhaps you don't understand the difficulties that many kids in Buffalo are saddled with as a result of parenting, poverty, etc. I'm not using those as excuses, but if your "responsible measures" don't account for those difficulties then yes, education in Buffalo may not appear to "measure" up. However, if you used the number of people educated so that they chose a life of work instead of a life of crime then maybe the "success" rate would be different. All depends on how you define success and measure.

[grump]

I am a teacher in Buffalo and there are some problems with what you say. Especially regarding "every responsible measure". I suppose you don't necessarily think, for instance, that a one-legged runner would finish a 100-meter race at the same time that a two-legged runner would. Perhaps you don't understand the difficulties that many kids in Buffalo are saddled with as a result of parenting, poverty, etc. I'm not using those as excuses, but if your "responsible measures" don't account for those difficulties then yes, education in Buffalo may not appear to "measure" up. However, if you used the number of people educated so that they chose a life of work instead of a life of crime then maybe the "success" rate would be different. All depends on how you define success and measure.

What if the two-legged runner were blind and couldn't see the track...or deaf and couldn't hear the starter'spistol? Of course you're using parenting and poverty as excuses; otherwise why raise them? I haven't seen the statistics (if anyone keeps them) but I'd bet as much as $2 that the crime statistics of the students of every other school district in Erie County stack up favorably against those of the kiddies in the Buffalo schools if your claim is that the Buffalo schools are great crime fighters.

[grump]

Moreover, it's a sad commentary on a school district that it measures it's success by crime fighting!!!

[grump]

Would teaching kids to read, write and do some elementary math be asking too much?

[WNYresident]

What if the two-legged runner were blind and couldn't see the track...or deaf and couldn't hear the starter'spistol? Of course you're using parenting and poverty as excuses; otherwise why raise them? I haven't seen the statistics (if anyone keeps them) but I'd bet as much as $2 that the crime statistics of the students of every other school district in Erie County stack up favorably against those of the kiddies in the Buffalo schools if your claim is that the Buffalo schools are great crime fighters.

That is being unfair. PARENTING is a large part of a child's education.

[WNYresident]

Would teaching kids to read, write and do some elementary math be asking too much?

Has anyone made a list comparing what the basics kids were taught in the 60s/70s versus now? There had to be core topics that would still be the same today as years ago.

[Genoobie]

Well, I have a bunch of kids that outperform their suburban counterparts on standardized tests (given like for like on SAT scores and 8th grade math and ELA assessments). But I am at a school that can pre-select their population (Hutch Tech). I also am not suggesting that we measure a school's success by crime-reduction but I am suggesting that the schools are doing double, sometimes triple duty. What you have to ask yourself grump is what would the city look like without schools? Where would kids be? Of course, I am not averse to examining how well that money is spent in supporting the community. Just some thoughts.

[grump]

Well, I have a bunch of kids that outperform their suburban counterparts on standardized tests (given like for like on SAT scores and 8th grade math and ELA assessments). But I am at a school that can pre-select their population (Hutch Tech). I also am not suggesting that we measure a school's success by crime-reduction but I am suggesting that the schools are doing double, sometimes triple duty. What you have to ask yourself grump is what would the city look like without schools? Where would kids be? Of course, I am not averse to examining how well that money is spent in supporting the community. Just some thoughts.

Must be nice to be able to cherry pick the most capable students. No public suburban high school that I know of has that luxury. I hope that your scores are competitive! I understand that on any given school day slightly more than 50% of the kids attend the city schools so I guess we have a pretty clear indication what Buffalo would be like without schools...marginally worse than it does now!

[Genoobie]

Must be nice to be able to cherry pick the most capable students. No public suburban high school that I know of has that luxury. I hope that your scores are competitive! I understand that on any given school day slightly more than 50% of the kids attend the city schools so I guess we have a pretty clear indication what Buffalo would be like without schools...marginally worse than it does now!

Really? Do all students in a suburban school take upper level math and science courses? I guess not. So within the school students are filtered out because that might make their results look bad. You see you make mistakes that are commonly made by people analyzing the situation armed with little information. You take the same teachers from Williamsville and stick them in Buffalo. Please then tell me how substantially different the results would be. The attendance rate would magically jump to 95% like Williamsville? The 9th graders would magically show up the next day and be at a 9th grade or beyond reading level? When students are failing in standard coursework in Wville, or OP, what does the district do? "Hmm, maybe you'd be better off in BOCES son." "Maybe the Falk school would be a good place for you." So spare me. The suburbs "cherry pick" by making real estate prices higher and taxes higher which then cuts down on the rental market. This practice naturally selects against parents with lower levels of educational achievement or an inability to manage finances, etc. As I said, I am open to other ideas of how to spend the money for BPS In Buffalo in creative ways that benefit city residents and work in some way to improve educational outcomes. But your simplistic, soundbite of "Buffalo schools suck" is just a parroting of what you've heard.

[grump]

First it was parenting and poverty, now it's the evil suburbs with their higher real estate prices and taxes that are the problem. Which of course brings us right back to the argument that one of the reasons people live where they live is because they want quality schools. When people saw federal judges and city politicians deciding who would attend which schools in Buffalo, they did what they had to do to protect kids...they moved! Of course suburban schools catagorize kids...that's why some take AP, some regents, some vocational. I thought that schools were supposed to help kids achieve to best of their ability. To do that one has to recognize that we're all "differently abled" to steal a current PC term. I guess the Buffalo schools have decided that most of their students are prime candidates for the state penal system since success is apparently measured by keeping the crime rate within reason for its population. I know and speak to other Buffalo school teachers who are much more frank about the incompetent administration that supports thug students and thug parents over the teachers and a safe sound educational environment. As a teacher in the system you are certainly aware of the crime against teachers and students that goes unreported . You want an idea to address funding of the Buffalo schools, here's one. Cut it and give the money to successful districts. It is simply wasteful of scarce resourced to continue to support such a failed institution. If they thought the would be removed from the state teet the Buffalo shools would shape up in 2 years.

[WNYresident]

Grump?

If there was going to be a wholesale change across the board of the "administration" of the Buffalo School System how many people would that be? Including the "union administration" that supplies the labor. I am not referring to the teachers or maintenance people. Basically like the "CEOs" of the BPS