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Thread: Parents urge contract changes on BTF

  1. #31
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    Can't say I know about a teacher being fired re:meeting with DC officials. BTW, Rhee's model for DC? Rife with teachers cheating (charter school teachers faking test results).

    You mention union thugs. The same people that publish how poorly US schools do to other schools around the world? The countries that greatly outdistance US education, Canada, Finland, etc etc. All UNION. So it must be those thugs have obtained international control...

  2. #32
    Member Bannister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steven View Post
    I did think it was wrong for the state ti force that absentee thing on you guys but on the other hand if you are not equipped to deal with inner city kids you shouldn't have taken a job in a district with a lot of inner city kids.
    This is like hiring a pediatric oncologist and during the 17 years he's been working for your hospital you take away his nursing staff (teacher's aide), raise his patient load (class sizes from 20 to 30), and cut off his access to chemotherapy meds (social workers, attendance teachers, special education resources)...then you tell him, "Well, if you're not equipped to deal with cancer patients, you shouldn't be practicing."
    1 Corinthians 13:1 "If I speak in the languages of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal."

  3. #33
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    Yet during those 17 years his and his hospitals funding has doubled...

    Quick question, do you actually know how much your HI plan costs as a total for a married couple plus child?
    "I know you guys enjoy reading my stuff because it all makes sense. "

    Dumbest post ever! Thanks for the laugh PO!

  4. #34
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    Ugh, okay, some more math (though this has been done before).

    My salary 45K. HI benefit (which some in the private sector do get by the way!) 15K. If I work 30 yrs and retire for 30 yrs (that will make me 92, so unlikely, but OK), retirement income 42K. 45K + 15K + 42K for 30 yrs gives a pkg of 112K / yr.

    Now I teach 150 kids. 112K / 150 kids = $746 per class per kid for 180 days. The class I teach is equivalent to a university level course. Per credit hour UB is $316. 180 * 2/3 = 120 hours of meeting time. Now a three credit course meets for 45 hours so my course is 8 credits. 8 credits * $316 / hr = $2528 dollars / year per kid at UB prices. Private would be triple this.

    So the cost is roughly 1/3 the cost of a SUNY college and 1/10th the cost of a local private college. I haven't done the comparison for community colleges but it is probably less than half the cost.

    Now, at $750 * 8 periods, you arrive at a teacher payroll cost of $6000 / kid. So in Buffalo, where does the rest of that cash go? Listen again (for the mathematically challenged here who rail against teachers because some puppet told them "Duh, yoonions bad"), the lion's share of the expense is not teacher payroll. So please, put a sock in it.

    If you want to rail against something, why does the stock market keep getting funded when it loses over and over again (savings & loan, 2008 meltdown, bailout of airlines, GM, etc)?

    Incidentally, if you care to educate yourself, the story behind the rider is as follows:
    1) District switches to single plan without negotiating.
    2) BTF litigates, wins.
    3) Teachers put on wage freeze for three years.
    4) Wage freeze lifted, no increase in step (savings of roughly 5G per teacher * 3500 teachers or $17.5M PER YEAR, where has this money gone?)
    5) District is forced to switch to multiple payer and carry rider.
    6) Teachers litigate in state court, win twice but lose at Court of Appeals.
    7) Rider no longer offered by the insurance company district must cover this cost.
    8) Funds for visits must be paid for by district.
    9) Plan must be offered to all district employees (not just teachers).
    10) 500 people made use of this rider to the tune of 4.5M last year (90K per person), just curious as to what procedures run 90K per person and why this isn't being investigated by the news. It sounds like someone is letting their "friends" use their rider and doctors not checking so thoroughly.
    11) Radford, news, et. al. keep dredging this up as old news when teachers have said we will negotiate.

    Buffalo teachers are among the lowest paid teachers of the many many districts in the area. Anyone here understand law? Do you realize what it would mean to set precedent to "give something up" without negotiations? Then the district could force the hand of teachers whenever it liked.
    Last edited by Genoobie; April 10th, 2012 at 02:36 PM.

  5. #35
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    your math assumes each student only has 1 teacher

  6. #36
    Member yokes's Avatar
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    PEr the Buffalo Schools Budget
    39% of the budget is teaching and learning
    18% is employee benefits.

    Teaching staff is 65% of the staffing costs.

    Adjusting for that you're looking at about 50% of the total Budget allocated to pay and benefits for teaching staff.

    So unless I am missing something the lions share is this line item.

  7. #37
    Member Frank Broughton's Avatar
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    It is a crime how much the public school costs. I home school my kids. I own curriculum from 3rd grade to 12th all paid for! My cost per year per student now - ZERO! and I have several awesome electives too.
    The above is opinion & commentary, I am exercising my 1st Amendment rights as a US citizen. Posts are NOT made with any malicious intent.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by yokes View Post
    your math assumes each student only has 1 teacher
    Nah, you're wrong...

    Quote Originally Posted by Genoobie
    Now, at $750 * 8 periods, you arrive at a teacher payroll cost of $6000 / kid.
    There it is. 8 periods = 8 teachers.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by FBroughton
    It is a crime how much the public school costs. I home school my kids. I own curriculum from 3rd grade to 12th all paid for! My cost per year per student now - ZERO! and I have several awesome electives too.
    Can't cost you "nothing". You should research opportunity cost. But that's economic theory, I wouldn't expect you to understand...

  10. #40
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    Let's do the math on a primary school situation.

    1 Teacher @ 112K / year / 30 kids

    $3733 payroll per kid per year.

    Darn, trying hard to find that money...

    Oh yeah, state mandates like special education

    1 teacher per 6 kids

    112K / year / 6 kids = $18,667.

    However, that's a state mandate. Does the state pay for this mandate? Well that depends on their mood I guess...

    Some teachers aren't teaching...hmmm
    Some special education classes only have a couple of kids...
    Must be the unions though...even though it was pointed out before that nearly all the countries that clobber the US in education have a unionized teacher workforce.

  11. #41
    Tony - Admin WNYresident's Avatar
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    Must be the unions though...even though it was pointed out before that nearly all the countries that clobber the US in education have a unionized teacher workforce.
    Just wondering.. are salaries comparable? From country to country per child spent?
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  12. #42
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    Salaries are comparable (our friends north of the border make more than teachers here, starting at 55K and reaching 95K in 10 years). However, per child spending is much higher here. Again, I point to special education mandates, etc. Additionally, education in the US is simply not as valued as much as it is in other countries. We "make up" for this by adding technology, etc., to make education "appear" interesting. The technology budget of education is tremendous. Other countries don't really offer sports (or much art or music either, mostly a pay-as-need basis as far as I understand).

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genoobie View Post
    Nah, you're wrong...



    There it is. 8 periods = 8 teachers.
    oops sorry you're right.

    rather than get into semantics over the math I will stand by my statement that despite your math lesson teacher costs are indeed the lion share of the budget expenditures, unless the school district is fraudulently reporting their budget.

    of course they should be, since there are more teachers than any other employee in the district, my point was that the math lesson wasn't jiving with the actual budget numbers so one of them is an in-accurate representation.

  14. #44
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    unions out of line

    hey home school is great
    unions should hang it up
    buffalo is unfixable

  15. #45
    Member Frank Broughton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genoobie View Post
    Can't cost you "nothing". You should research opportunity cost. But that's economic theory, I wouldn't expect you to understand...
    Naw, you are right, I have only been a Treasurer for 22 plus years and before that a Controller for 7, before that a purchasing manager - I know nothing of economic theories. Do know reality and cost accounting. I have zero cost in curriculum for my one son in school now and own 3-12 for my 4 year old. Of course I will update some when he gets older but for now all is paid for and the cost factor used up for the other 4 kids that have completed school.

    Your theories can go into the wind and disappear - I know reality.

    As far as opportunity cost, my zero cost is far superior to your ridiculous cost. Your way would have never paid dividends for us in any long run analysis. I will put my best up against yours any day. I made the right choice!
    The above is opinion & commentary, I am exercising my 1st Amendment rights as a US citizen. Posts are NOT made with any malicious intent.

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