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Thread: Parents urge contract changes on BTF

  1. #16
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genoobie View Post
    Good, so I'll tell my bank that I don't have to pay the mortgage. They have lots of money and are good at doing that so I don't really have to honor my agreement. Are you really that simple? I am excellent at what I do. My numbers are among the best in state. I teach because I am passionate about sharing my understanding of my content. However, we live in this thing called a "society" Frank. Last I checked, just loving something wasn't enough to participate in this society. You are beginning to sound a bit like a hippy...
    Don't confuse two unrelated situations. In some cases it is that simple. If your bank continually raised your interest rate automatically every year including adding an increase to cover what ever, you would start shopping for a new bank.

  2. #17
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    I guess I am a bit sensitive becuse of the incessant harping on the teachers in Buffalo. I really challenge anyone to step in to the present situation with the present constraints and do better.
    I don't see how that's apples and oranges. If there were a contract and I said, "Well I don't like the terms of this contract anymore so I'm going to stop paying", that's exactly what happened. I agreed to take this job with that particular contract in mind and so that's part of the reason I left my previous employer. I wasn't unhappy but I preferred teaching. I still love it, but the powers that be are making it a more and more difficult job to love each day.

  3. #18
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    If there were a contract and I said, "Well I don't like the terms of this contract anymore so I'm going to stop paying", that's exactly what happened.
    You have to eventually. Specially if the contract is made up in fantasy land that never expires. Ever.

  4. #19
    Member Frank Broughton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WNYresident View Post
    You have to eventually. Specially if the contract is made up in fantasy land that never expires. Ever.
    That is exactly the point! That is why I am so bold to say it is mafia - criminal! A crime against society and they have the nerve to cry - MORE MORE MORE! Sometimes fighting intensively over what amounts to a tube of toothpaste a week. NO, if we give an inch they will want a mile, the union says, so they hold onto the ridiculous stuff and say, well we will bargain it away. Hogwash - clean up your act first mr mafia union thugs.
    The above is opinion & commentary, I am exercising my 1st Amendment rights as a US citizen. Posts are NOT made with any malicious intent.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by WNYresident View Post
    You have to eventually. Specially if the contract is made up in fantasy land that never expires. Ever.
    Great, I'll come to your business and get some services. When you ask for money, I'll say, that's outrageous.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genoobie View Post
    Great, I'll come to your business and get some services. When you ask for money, I'll say, that's outrageous.
    if only 50% of the computers he fixed worked you might have a comparison. imagine a company that only gets it right half the time raising their prices. would you continue to go there or go someplace else. 3/5s of the cities population chosen to move to another area.
    One good thing about growing old is your secrets are safe with your friends they can't remember them either

  7. #22
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genoobie View Post
    Great, I'll come to your business and get some services. When you ask for money, I'll say, that's outrageous.
    That happens... I don't make a sale 100% of the time..

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    Hey, our banks screwed it up, they get more money. GM screws it up, they get more money. Who said you needed to succeed to be in business?

  9. #24
    Member Frank Broughton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by granpabob View Post
    if only 50% of the computers he fixed worked you might have a comparison. imagine a company that only gets it right half the time raising their prices. would you continue to go there or go someplace else. 3/5s of the cities population chosen to move to another area.
    Grandpa, they are so blind to that reality.... good post!
    The above is opinion & commentary, I am exercising my 1st Amendment rights as a US citizen. Posts are NOT made with any malicious intent.

  10. #25
    Member Bannister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by granpabob View Post
    if only 50% of the computers he fixed worked you might have a comparison. imagine a company that only gets it right half the time raising their prices. would you continue to go there or go someplace else. 3/5s of the cities population chosen to move to another area.
    I don't buy that. All you have to do is read the education threads on this board to see there is really no teacher anywhere whose raises aren't begrudged by the posters on this board. It doesn't matter if she teaches in Williamsville, City Honors or Kenmore.

    It's pinned on Buffalo graduation rates in our thread, but they'll find something else to complain about for the suburban teachers.

    I guess teachers aren't supposed to make money? "Cause it's all about the kids." Nobody begrudges the pediatric oncologist for getting paid even if her patients' chances are slim. Sometimes fighting the effects of poverty in the city are like fighting against childhood cancer.

    So I go about my business and try not to let it bother me when otherwise kind people slam me as being a criminal just for being a Buffalo teacher. I don't even *have* the flipping insurance that gives plastic surgery b/c the copays are too high for me to afford. I chose the option with the lower copays for my kid's doctor visits.

    Still, there is no way I'd vote to give up the plastic surgery rider without a full contract negotiation. It doesn't make good business sense on our part which is surprising that all the business people on here don't see that. Maybe it would improve public opinion, but that would only last for a minute and a half before the Buffalo News found something else to bash us about.

    They should teach thick skins in college, because teachers these days need it.
    1 Corinthians 13:1 "If I speak in the languages of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal."

  11. #26
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    I believe, IMO that it is really not about the salary. I feel the negotiation process is what bothers people. The bravado mentality to bully the taxpayers into submission. As this is a discussion and not a debate, I think the process of arbitration (union) should change its style of how they negotiate the contracts.

    Teachers are the most important profession in my opinion and should be paid well. It is the toughest job out there as they are teaching our precious commodity. That being said, I feel the unions are your worst asset, I think the union process should be revamped. I do see that possibly happening in the near future.

  12. #27
    Member Frank Broughton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortstuff View Post
    I believe, IMO that it is really not about the salary. I feel the negotiation process is what bothers people. The bravado mentality to bully the taxpayers into submission. As this is a discussion and not a debate, I think the process of arbitration (union) should change its style of how they negotiate the contracts.

    Teachers are the most important profession in my opinion and should be paid well. It is the toughest job out there as they are teaching our precious commodity. That being said, I feel the unions are your worst asset, I think the union process should be revamped. I do see that possibly happening in the near future.
    HOME RUN!!!!!! You have hit it out of the park with this one. It is not about the teachers per say, just how they switch on some kind of switch when it comes to contract time, following hop scotch with the union thugs.
    The above is opinion & commentary, I am exercising my 1st Amendment rights as a US citizen. Posts are NOT made with any malicious intent.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Broughton View Post
    HOME RUN!!!!!! You have hit it out of the park with this one. It is not about the teachers per say, just how they switch on some kind of switch when it comes to contract time, following hop scotch with the union thugs.
    Absolutely Frank--and then you nailed it by stating "union thugs."

  14. #29
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    Wasn't there a teacher who was just fired because she was at a meeting with someone who ran the washington DC school for a while?

  15. #30
    Member steven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bannister View Post
    I don't buy that. All you have to do is read the education threads on this board to see there is really no teacher anywhere whose raises aren't begrudged by the posters on this board. It doesn't matter if she teaches in Williamsville, City Honors or Kenmore.

    It's pinned on Buffalo graduation rates in our thread, but they'll find something else to complain about for the suburban teachers.

    I guess teachers aren't supposed to make money? "Cause it's all about the kids." Nobody begrudges the pediatric oncologist for getting paid even if her patients' chances are slim. Sometimes fighting the effects of poverty in the city are like fighting against childhood cancer.

    So I go about my business and try not to let it bother me when otherwise kind people slam me as being a criminal just for being a Buffalo teacher. I don't even *have* the flipping insurance that gives plastic surgery b/c the copays are too high for me to afford. I chose the option with the lower copays for my kid's doctor visits.

    Still, there is no way I'd vote to give up the plastic surgery rider without a full contract negotiation. It doesn't make good business sense on our part which is surprising that all the business people on here don't see that. Maybe it would improve public opinion, but that would only last for a minute and a half before the Buffalo News found something else to bash us about.

    They should teach thick skins in college, because teachers these days need it.
    LOL I dont think its teachers Per se. But Unions and Rumore does make a point of getting his face in the news often enough.

    In all honesty Bannister I have lived all the world and all over the country while in the military and I can say without a doubt Buffalo is the only place I have ever been where the teachers union leader is a household name. Seriously, think about that. If u elect a guy that acts like a lightening rod dont be surprised when u get hit with some of the flack.

    The cosmetic surgery thing is a good example. Its a PR nightmare and even supporters of the teachers union will shy from that one. The smart thing to do would be just drop it not try to justify it as a "bargaining chip".

    The coaching thing is another great example, I have coached high school sports in GA and Texas I dont think there are many districts left outside of the rust belt that require coaches to be teachers, or be part of the union. IMHO the training and lessons learned a kid gets on the football field can be just as important as what he learns in a class room and a of the teacher coaches in the BPS are woefully, terribly unqualified to coach. Some are good with one sport and terrible at the others but they are the "teacher coach so they get to coach more then what they know. I know I have seen them and some dont even have a clue what they are doing and others are coaching high school ball with Little league tactics. Again this hurts the child, not the teacher who just gets to pad there check win or lose. I can assure you that a culture of losing is not tolerated anywhere I have been except here. All because the game is secondary to who gets to pull the strings and who gets paid.

    You are passionate about the subject as you should be since its your job, what I dont think you understand is concerned parents are just as if not more passionate then you. My kids are all out of highschool now but if they where still in my response to this would be

    "I dont care about your negotiating, my son has 4 years in high school. Thats it. Period, done. Thats four years of his life he will never get back while you were negotiating"

    There is nothing you could say that would change my mind. This is my sons life versus your current career choice.

    This was all inevitable, when teachers wont put there own children in the school district they work in what did you expect? A couple years ago I stood in line at science charter and chatted with my oldest sons ex 8th grade teacher, yep, she was enrolling her kid in a charter.

    I did think it was wrong for the state ti force that absentee thing on you guys but on the other hand if you are not equipped to deal with inner city kids you shouldn't have taken a job in a district with a lot of inner city kids.
    People who wonder if the glass is half empty or full miss the point. The glass is refillable.

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