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Thread: Lancaster Airport owners seek buyer

  1. #91
    Member granpabob's Avatar
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    On the Cambria field thread it was argued that if we don't get the money for our area it will just be spent some where else. We have to get our share, Does that only apply when it is for you or some where that won't affect you. they got money for our area like they are supposed to do but now they are evil because it went to the other guy not you. I don't agree with the government propping up any private business. Why is the airport evil. If the government came to you and said they would insulate your home and replace your windows would you be evil for accepting it
    One good thing about growing old is your secrets are safe with your friends they can't remember them either

  2. #92
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    Using tax dollars to help conserve energy in a tax payers home can in no way be even remotely comparable.

    Giving millions of tax dollars to a "Private Venture Business" that doesn't serve the community - doesn't pay the equal tax rate as a home owner is forced to - how could anyone possibly use that as a argument - unless thats all one is interested in.

    The old argument of, "If we don't get it, someone else will" (tax dollars from the government) is another way of hiding the fact that the "Pot" is full of our tax money - That is what a free spending career politician would say - its not freshly printed cash - its not a gift from Santa - its our taxes being fed back to private business.

    I say cut our property taxes and income tax by 10-15% and let me decide who I want to support. If I like a business - I'll shop or eat there. If I want a toy boat or airplane - I'll buy my own. They dance and we pay the band - we don't even get invited to the party - no thanks.
    No tax funded patronage job, not running for Office , I speak for myself.
    When will tax payers out number tax funded employees at the polls?


  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by granpabob View Post
    On the Cambria field thread it was argued that if we don't get the money for our area it will just be spent some where else. We have to get our share, Does that only apply when it is for you or some where that won't affect you. they got money for our area like they are supposed to do but now they are evil because it went to the other guy not you. I don't agree with the government propping up any private business. Why is the airport evil. If the government came to you and said they would insulate your home and replace your windows would you be evil for accepting it
    Another apples to oranges comparison; the good of individuals over that of a business that is having itís operation funded with millions of dollars of taxpayer money.
    And the claptrap that if we didnít take the money then someone else would is political claptrap mantra spouted by those in office seeking to stay in office.
    Here is but one document FOIAíED to the FAA from the Safe Aviation Coalition of Lancaster (SACL):

    Dear FOIA Coordinator:

    This is a request under the Freedom of Information Act.

    I request that a copy of the following documents (or documents containing the following information) be provided to me:

    This request refers to any and all documents required by the FAA for AIP funding. In this case we need copies of all documents supplied by the Town of Lancaster, NY in regards to Buffalo Lancaster Airport; time frame 1968 - to date.


    Here was the response:

    I've reviewed all of our Lancaster files. The FOIA requested all documents required by the FAA for AIP funding that were submitted by the Town of Lancaster:

    Since the airport sponsor is a private individual, we do not have any correspondence from the Town of Lancaster in our files per the FOIA request. The only document we have from the town is a letter from the Town of Lancaster's Industrial Development Agency (IDA) stating that they have no interest in executing a Master Agreement (please see attached). This was in response to our conversations with the IDA about potentially doing a study to evaluate an acquisition of the airport by the town which would have required them to sign a Master Agreement.

    I believe this satisfies the FOIA request.


    Whatís the point here? Airport owner Tom Geles declared at several meetings (town board and others) that if it was not for the town he would not have received any federal or state grants. Here we see an FAA correspondence that says they have no records file indicating the town actively supported this airport expansion process. Strange, eh?

    Here we have a business that has tied up over 140 acres of property, over 100 acres beyond the special use permit allowing them to expand to only 31 acres, and this business wants and receives an assessment break because it isnít doing well financially. The 140+ acre airport property will be now be assessed at $2.1 million and will only pay $60,000 in property taxes.

    The land was purchased defying the legal limit set for expansion and is now deemed useless for light industrial development as it was zoned for. Can you imagine the tax dollars that could have been generated had the land developed as such.

    And you wonder why people are pissed? They should be.

    BTW - I am not aware of anyone calling the airport evil.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Chowaniec View Post

    Another apples to oranges comparison; the good of individuals over that of a business that is having it’s operation funded with millions of dollars of taxpayer money.
    And the claptrap that if we didn’t take the money then someone else would is political claptrap mantra spouted by those in office seeking to stay in office.
    Here is but one document FOIA’ED to the FAA from the Safe Aviation Coalition of Lancaster (SACL):

    Dear FOIA Coordinator:

    This is a request under the Freedom of Information Act.

    I request that a copy of the following documents (or documents containing the following information) be provided to me:

    This request refers to any and all documents required by the FAA for AIP funding. In this case we need copies of all documents supplied by the Town of Lancaster, NY in regards to Buffalo Lancaster Airport; time frame 1968 - to date.


    Here was the response:

    I've reviewed all of our Lancaster files. The FOIA requested all documents required by the FAA for AIP funding that were submitted by the Town of Lancaster:

    Since the airport sponsor is a private individual, we do not have any correspondence from the Town of Lancaster in our files per the FOIA request. The only document we have from the town is a letter from the Town of Lancaster's Industrial Development Agency (IDA) stating that they have no interest in executing a Master Agreement (please see attached). This was in response to our conversations with the IDA about potentially doing a study to evaluate an acquisition of the airport by the town which would have required them to sign a Master Agreement.

    I believe this satisfies the FOIA request.


    What’s the point here? Airport owner Tom Geles declared at several meetings (town board and others) that if it was not for the town he would not have received any federal or state grants. Here we see an FAA correspondence that says they have no records file indicating the town actively supported this airport expansion process. Strange, eh?

    Here we have a business that has tied up over 140 acres of property, over 100 acres beyond the special use permit allowing them to expand to only 31 acres, and this business wants and receives an assessment break because it isn’t doing well financially. The 140+ acre airport property will be now be assessed at $2.1 million and will only pay $60,000 in property taxes.

    The land was purchased defying the legal limit set for expansion and is now deemed useless for light industrial development as it was zoned for. Can you imagine the tax dollars that could have been generated had the land developed as such.

    And you wonder why people are pissed? They should be.

    BTW - I am not aware of anyone calling the airport evil.
    So that is just one of the FOIA responses to SACL's requests! If SACL were to release ALL of the information they have gathered on the airport and the FAA/Giza administration's handling of this to the media it sounds like it would really outrage the public and result in a call for accountability. Holding public officials (and private individuals/companies) accountable is something many think is important for incentivizing them to be honest----what a novel thought! Perhaps those who generated and allowed this airport mess should "run for the hills" now to distance themselves as much a possible.

  5. #95
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    Sorry but I cant help see how our past IDA and Town Government kept using false impressions to steer MILLIONS and MILLIONS of tax dollars:

    They create a "Arm of Village Government" to get IDA funding for the BOCE Building. They hired their political friends to maintain and manage the property. Now they use tax dollars ($900,000.00) to tear parts of it down to facilitate more private venture ideas. Ends up costing home owners and tax payers MILLIONS - then we find the same people(Government/IDA) actualy forgave some of the debt and taxes.

    They use tax dollars to purchase the Cole Craft Building for Town use - then they claim its not suitable for the stated purposes. They then after spending MILLIONS of tax dollars - they finally build a much needed police facility on Pavement Rd. More wasted home owner taxes.

    At one point they also tossed around buying the "Golf Range" on Gennessee for just a few MILLION.

    Now carefully read this statement from the FAA, "The only document we have from the town is a letter from the Town of Lancaster's Industrial Development Agency (IDA) stating that they have no interest in executing a Master Agreement (please see attached). This was in response to our conversations with the IDA about potentially doing a study to evaluate an acquisition of the airport by the town which would have required them to sign a Master Agreement.

    Wonder how far along Council Member Ruffino has gone with the Towns Idea to buy the land on Genessee from LaFarge. The story there was with just a few MILLION TAX DOLLARS Council Member Ruffino could relieve them of the tax burden of the land and create a Town funded and "Maintained" soccer fields/Parks land.

    People wonder why our property taxes are insane and so many homes sit on the market - many selling at or below "Appraised Market Value"
    No tax funded patronage job, not running for Office , I speak for myself.
    When will tax payers out number tax funded employees at the polls?


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