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Thread: Term Limits?

  1. #1

    Exclamation Term Limits?

    We all know the root cause of the problems: entrenched interests whose first priority is to maintain their hold on power. This is why you keep seeing the Giambras and the Masiellos and Hoyts and Naples and ... keep getting elected. And they make sure to pad the County (and City) payroll with their buddies, whose main job is to get their paymasters get elected in the next election.

    Therefore, why not impose term limits for the following: County Executive; Mayor; County Legislature, and Common Council? No one should be allowed to run for more than 2 consecutive terms?

    Until the root causes of these problems are eliminated, the problems won't go away. We're just playing Whack-a-mole here, without a long-term solution in sight.

  2. #2
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    Re: Term Limits?

    Originally posted by hacktivist
    We all know the root cause of the problems: entrenched interests whose first priority is to maintain their hold on power. This is why you keep seeing the Giambras and the Masiellos and Hoyts and Naples and ... keep getting elected. And they make sure to pad the County (and City) payroll with their buddies, whose main job is to get their paymasters get elected in the next election.

    Therefore, why not impose term limits for the following: County Executive; Mayor; County Legislature, and Common Council? No one should be allowed to run for more than 2 consecutive terms?

    Until the root causes of these problems are eliminated, the problems won't go away. We're just playing Whack-a-mole here, without a long-term solution in sight.
    If most people can't agree to vote out the problematic encumbants I don't see any way most people would go for term limits.

    It may go a little way to solving the problem, but the other part of the problem is a lack of quality running against the people already in power. I'm not sure I really see the power structure changing very much - the same old union-friendly tax-and-spend politicians will get elected anyway.

    Changing the suit doesn't change the government.

  3. #3
    Member farmall806's Avatar
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    I would like to see a 2 term limit for all elected officials in local government. Too often, the local political structure becomes entrenched in the same old go nowhere type of thinking, when it comes to local politics. People could propose some very good ideas that have been well thought out and well researched, but if the politicians have never thought of doing anything differently, they will just brush off the idea as being something that they don't want to do. I think that there are enough people in any town in Erie County that could run for political office and do good things for their community.

    farmall806

  4. #4
    Member Linda_D's Avatar
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    I have never been a fan of term limits, but I think that the situation in Buffalo has become such that term limits for the mayor and Common Council seem appropriate.

    I didn't mention the county because I think that the best solution to the mess in the county is to return to the Board of Supervisors (with weighted voting) and replace the county executive with an appointed county manager. Paying the supervisors and city mayors modest stipends for their county work would save a lot of money and eliminate the need for term limits at the county level since they would be at the town or city level.

  5. #5
    In an ideal world, talent would beat out old-school politics. But this world is far from ideal. Once these leeches get their fangs into the system, it is impossible to unseat them. And seeing the enormity of the task, no outsider bothers to run against them. Would you want to waste months of your life and 100s of 1000s of dollars, to compete against a Giambra with his machinery of 100s of county workers who owe him their jobs? These people distribute county jobs around like bribes, making sure that anyone with local clout gets on the payroll.

    If you take a dispassionate look at the mess, you will see that _all_ of the parties (save a very, very small number) were actively taking advantage of the system to solidify their own positions. Giambra, Naples, etc. all of them.

    I used to hate term limits too. When Newt and company talked about term limits in the early 90s, I was dead set against them. But this is different. The rot has set in so deep, that only a radical solution like term limits is the cure. If any of you think that the war has been won by defeating the sales tax hike, you are mistaken. Watch for the bloat to come back slowly over time.

  6. #6
    Gold Member Night Owl's Avatar
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    No one should be allowed to run for more than 2 consecutive terms?

    I have always agreed with that concept. Like the President, no more than 8 years in elected office.

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    Does term limits mean that we will be paying retirements, and benefits to more people? Until we end retirements and benefits for elected officials we will just have musical chairs of positions and politicians.

    Also we need to add one more step to the salary review process for elected politicians. The current process is:

    1) A group of buddies and people trying to curry favor get together a recommend that the terribly underpaid official need a huge raise.

    2) It goes to the legislature who add their names to the list plus their buddies and pass it.

    3) It goes to the executive who signs it into law.

    We should now add the following:

    4) It goes to a vote of the electorate who decide whether it is a raise or a CUT. Watch how much more reasonable the raise requests are under this proposal.
    The shortest distance between two politicians is thru your wallet.

  8. #8
    Member Riven37's Avatar
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    Re: Term Limits?

    Originally posted by hacktivist
    We all know the root cause of the problems: entrenched interests whose first priority is to maintain their hold on power. This is why you keep seeing the Giambras and the Masiellos and Hoyts and Naples and ... keep getting elected. And they make sure to pad the County (and City) payroll with their buddies, whose main job is to get their paymasters get elected in the next election.

    Therefore, why not impose term limits for the following: County Executive; Mayor; County Legislature, and Common Council? No one should be allowed to run for more than 2 consecutive terms?

    Until the root causes of these problems are eliminated, the problems won't go away. We're just playing Whack-a-mole here, without a long-term solution in sight.

    First, you need to get your elected officals in place because its the Legisltors who must place the resolution in for such a change as term limits. If you can get 5 seats with your people in them then, you might beable to create change but remember what you change and be changed right back the next year.

    I for one believe the County Legislture body has too much open power in one man hand, meaning the Chirman. When the Chriman can remove a Legisltor rule without the body vote, then you are doomed to repeat your history over and over again.

    I think these groups that are springing up to start doing some real action like protest these politicans homes. Hit them where it will hurt them, their own communities.

    Protest the Rath Building day in and day out. Look people seem to have no problem protesting War or actions of war, so, protest the County Legisltors mismanagement actions.

    Post up flyers stating their downfalls, show their mismangement. Hit them like you are the Press covering a major story. This is when politicans will change when you the people place so much presure on them it will effect the next year elelctions they will change or leave there post trying to BS you until the end comes.

    Wow, I'll stop now lol
    Riven37
    _________
    All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent. Thomas Jefferson

  9. #9
    Just like the sales tax can't just be enacted by a simple majority, an imposition of term limits can also be such that it requires an act of state legislature to change.

    I do agree about the retirement/pension plans for elected officials, though. The answer to that is to get rid of such. Public service is a duty, not a right. Most of these chaps get out of public service and land high-paying jobs as lobbyists or managers of public utilities/boards anyways. Whats the big deal.

  10. #10
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    Smile people's vote

    I say to eliminate term limits, you should have the people vote in a referendum!

    This prevents the politicians from changing it.

    We could also do this on other matters such as tax increases!

  11. #11
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    One problem to consider is this....that incumbents at the state and federal level keep accumulating seniority and the POWER that goes with it. So military bases, pork projects etc. etc. all keep going to those states and consituencies which keep voting in the same people over and over again! So term limits in the long run can hurt the voters who have this law.

    Secondly, if it just didn't cost too damn much to do, I'd love to see referendums for salaries, pay raises, contracts, pensions, health care benefits, hiring, and expenditures over a certain amount!!! Pie in the sky, I guess!

  12. #12
    Originally posted by ccube
    One problem to consider is this....that incumbents at the state and federal level keep accumulating seniority and the POWER that goes with it. So military bases, pork projects etc. etc. all keep going to those states and consituencies which keep voting in the same people over and over again! So term limits in the long run can hurt the voters who have this law.
    I'm talking about term limits only for the County Exec, County Legislature, Mayor and Common Council. That's all.

    I understand that at the state/federal level, seniority and experience can make a big difference. However, at the local level, the incumbents are abusing the system by filling the government to bursting capacity with their own cronies. The only way to get rid of this bloat is to remove the incentive.

    This is no panacea. Corruption will always remain (as in the $3MM deal to that the FBI is investigating).

  13. #13
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    O.K. Now if these people know they will be out no matter what after their term is over, what incentive is there for them to be honest, do the best job they can, etc. etc. Plus, if we ever do get that rare individual who is a leader, who is honest, who is not corrupted by power and greed, we'd not be able to keep him or her inoffice. I admit this is very far fetched!!!

  14. #14
    Originally posted by ccube
    O.K. Now if these people know they will be out no matter what after their term is over, what incentive is there for them to be honest, do the best job they can, etc. etc.
    If they are dishonest, they will be dishonest. Term limits won't encourage dishonesty; if anything, it will discourage it. Why? Because the only way to prevent your dishonesty from catching up with you is to stay in power. Otherwise, once you're out, the others will hunt you down. Case in point: the furniture scandal. Don't you think we would have seen a much more aggressive pursuit of the guilty had Giambra not been in power?

    Plus, if we ever do get that rare individual who is a leader, who is honest, who is not corrupted by power and greed, we'd not be able to keep him or her inoffice. I admit this is very far fetched!!!
    You are talking as if the honest leader is such a rare thing. It is not; but it is rare currently because the vested interests do not allow such a person to win. With the current system, whoever can game the system and bend it to his/her advantage wins; not the one with the best ideas and vision.

    The office of the POTUS is the most powerful in this land, let alone the world. Don't you think it needs " a leader, who is honest, who is not corrupted by power and greed" ? Then why do they have term limits for that office?

  15. #15
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    I think the people's wish to have who they want has kept me from supporting term limits.

    Along with Control Boards, they'd seem to indicate that we in WNY can't seem to make democracy work. Or at least work well.

    That said, I think the Control Board has been good for the City.

    That said, term limits for POTUS is a good argument for them.

    There must have been a reason that the Founding Fathers put a limit on POTUS and not Congress.

    Maybe a better scholar than me who has read the Federalist Papers could chime in.

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