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Thread: Remember when...

  1. #16
    Member ILOVEDNY's Avatar
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    Tough to justify the expense when Obamacare has caused the number of uninsured to rise 17%.
    Check out how Blacks and Hispanics were hardest hit.
    Women who are uninsured have risen by double digits also.

    We're supposed to be outraged that the Catholics won't let their employees get free birth control.
    But the fact that millions of women have lost their insurance under obamacare, no problem.
    4 more years of this.http://www.gallup.com/poll/152162/Am...0-%20Wellbeing
    Last edited by ILOVEDNY; March 16th, 2012 at 10:18 AM.
    Hillary will NEVER be President
    Obama is a FORMER President
    Joe Biden is in Scranton eating paste.

  2. #17
    Member Frank Broughton's Avatar
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    ObamaCare Lies, Damned Lies and Statistics


    ObamaCare was built upon so many lies and deceptions it's hard to keep track, but this week revealed three in particular. What was it that Nancy Pelosi said about having to "pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it"?

    Lie Number 1: "Now, add it all up, and the plan I'm proposing will cost around $900 billion over 10 years." --Barack Obama in a September 2009 speech to a joint session of Congress

    The Congressional Budget Office at the time did confirm Obama's numbers, but the CBO scores legislation only as written, without any assumptions or reality checks, and therefore accounted for just six years of spending because most provisions of the law don't kick in until 2014. There were other revenue and cost games, too, since it was paramount that the cost be less than the Iraq War so Democrats could sell it as saving money. We weren't fooled then and neither were millions of Americans, but Democrats rammed it through anyway.

    This week, the CBO released an updated report that includes three more years of ObamaCare inside that 10-year window. The estimated cost over a decade is now an eye-popping $1.76 trillion, or nearly twice what Democrats told us in 2009. Not only that, but it won't be until next year that we get a truer 10-year cost estimate, assuming the law isn't repealed or overturned by the Supreme Court. That estimate will surpass $2 trillion. Let's hope Justice Anthony Kennedy wakes up on the right side of the bed the day he makes his decision.

    Lie Number 2: "If you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan." --Barack Obama in August 2009, but repeated often
    Obama and his fellow Democrats insisted that ObamaCare was not a government takeover of health care, and that, while all the uninsured would be cared for, none of the currently insured would lose coverage. However, The Hill reports, "Four million Americans can expect to lose their employer-provided healthcare by 2016, according to the revised figures, far more than the 1 million people estimated last year." You can check our math, but that's approximately four million more people than Obama promised in his 2009 speech. By 2022, the CBO says that number could reach 20 million. More employers dropping coverage in favor of paying the penalty means a revenue increase, too, improving ObamaCare's bottom line.

    As if to make good news out of broken promises, CBS headlined, "CBO lowers health reform cost estimate." This bit of deception referenced the provision meant to cover the uninsured when the real news was about the overall cost increase. It's true that the coverage cost was revised lower, but that's only because some two million fewer people will be insured than originally estimated, not because of any great savings.

    Lie Number 3: "Under our plan, no federal dollars will be used to fund abortions, and federal conscience laws will remain in place." --Barack Obama in the aforementioned September 2009 address

    The Department of Health and Human Services finalized a rule this week establishing state health care exchanges, and those plans will collect from each premium payer a $1 surcharge to fund abortions. Obama's HHS will use accounting gimmicks to circumvent the Hyde Amendment, which prohibits direct taxpayer funding of abortion. Former Democrat Rep. Bart Stupak of Michigan and other Democrats made a grand show over this issue in 2010, refusing to vote for the health care takeover until Obama included a ban on funding abortion. They got their wish, but Obama hasn't upheld his end of the bargain.

    It's becoming more and more important that this unconstitutional atrocity be either struck down by the Supreme Court or repealed by our alleged representatives. The White House has already mapped out a desperate strategy to boost public support. Perhaps it's no wonder that the law's supporters are organizing a prayer vigil as the Court hears arguments March 26. To whom they will be offering prayer is another matter.

    *Source - http://patriotpost.us/edition/2012/03/16/digest/
    The above is opinion & commentary, I am exercising my 1st Amendment rights as a US citizen. Posts are NOT made with any malicious intent.

  3. #18
    Member Mindcrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougles View Post
    You mean a study in the 1980's should that 40,000 people died because of lack of HEALTH INSURANCE, not health care.
    No Dougles, I mean the 2009 study that said exactly what I remembered.
    A study published online today estimates nearly 45,000 annual deaths are associated with lack of health insurance. That figure is about two and a half times higher than an estimate from the Institute of Medicine (IOM) in 2002.

    The new study, “Health Insurance and Mortality in U.S. Adults,” appears in today’s online edition of the American Journal of Public Health.

    The Harvard-based researchers found that uninsured, working-age Americans have a 40 percent higher risk of death than their privately insured counterparts, up from a 25 percent excess death rate found in 1993.

    http://www.pnhp.org/news/2009/septem...udy_finds_.php
    And let's be realistic, these days, health insurance is practically the same as healthcare. Unless you're independantly wealthy, you don't have access to healthcare without insurance.
    Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. No one is entitled to their own facts.

  4. #19
    Member leftWNYbecauseofBS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mindcrime View Post
    If memory serves, people were dying at a rate of 45,000 a year just because they didn't have access to health care.
    As Dougles pointed out, there is a difference between health insurance and health care. Since you're an idiot, I wanted to reiterate the point.

  5. #20
    Member Mindcrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leftWNYbecauseofBS View Post
    As Dougles pointed out, there is a difference between health insurance and health care. Since you're an idiot, I wanted to reiterate the point.
    I addressed that point. Explain how the average American can just go get a liver transplant or heart surgery without going bankrupt -- unless they have insurance.

    You've only succeeded in reiterating your own idocy.
    Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. No one is entitled to their own facts.

  6. #21
    Member leftWNYbecauseofBS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mindcrime View Post
    I addressed that point. Explain how the average American can just go get a liver transplant or heart surgery without going bankrupt -- unless they have insurance.

    You've only succeeded in reiterating your own idocy.

    You led with people die due to not having access to healthcare. Which is BS. Changing the topic to affording the procedures does not help you look like less of a fool. There are people with insurance who still can not afford a transplant without going bankrupt.

    Of course..instead of actually going after the difficult task of making healthcare more affordable...President Obama simply just wants to cover the tab.

    The biggest challenge is that we waste so much money on healthcare every year. A liver transplant does not cost $350,000 to perform. But a liver transplant is billed at $350,000 to cover the waste that can not be covered.

    To give you an example, sadly I know the hospital checkout procedure all to well. In the last 3 years a loved one has been in the hospital 6 times. In four of those visits they were kept in the hospital over the weekend simply because discharge was done on Friday in the AM and they could not get processed in time. Since the cost of a night in the hospital is $3k to $5k, that is about $12k to $20k that was wasted simply because of clerical bs. Now this was covered by insurance but not every visit is.

    Another example is in the ER. I have a very close friend who is an ER doc in Nevada. Due to several factors about 80% of what they do is 100% unnecessary. Even worse is the majority of their work is for those who do not have insurance. It all adds to the bottom line.

    At the end of the day the ability to get a new liver or heart should not be cheap and it should not be free. But if you want to cry about people going bankrupt...
    1 - Consider they do not give a f*ck as they are still walking the earth broke
    2 - Complain about the waste that adds to their bill.

  7. #22
    Member mnb811's Avatar
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    The whole point of this was to lower insurance costs for EVERYONE who was paying for it, namely employers and employees. Instead it went into a cover everyone plan with government mandates and therefore increasing the cost to people like myself. My premiums jumped bigtime. This is what you call an EPIC FAIL!!!! Everyone who didn't have insurance loves it because they think its "free". WRONG!!!!!

  8. #23
    Member Mindcrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leftWNYbecauseofBS View Post
    You led with people die due to not having access to healthcare. Which is BS. Changing the topic to affording the procedures does not help you look like less of a fool. There are people with insurance who still can not afford a transplant without going bankrupt...
    You still haven't explained how having insurance is not the same as having access to health care.

    I didn't change the subject, what I said is a fact. Most people are not able to afford even low-level costs, like chemotherapy or getting an MRI, to say nothing of a major surgery. Mandating that the insurance companies couldn't refuse to cover you because you're sick was the right thing to do. Yes, there are flaws, and the actual cost of healthcare needs to be addressed. In the long run, 30 Million more people will be covered, it will save us money over the next decade and reduce the deficit. That's the bottom line.
    Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. No one is entitled to their own facts.

  9. #24
    Member ILOVEDNY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mindcrime View Post
    No Dougles, I mean the 2009 study that said exactly what I remembered.

    And let's be realistic, these days, health insurance is practically the same as healthcare. Unless you're independantly wealthy, you don't have access to healthcare without insurance.
    2009 study from the PNHP or...
    Physicians For a National Health program.
    No bias here.
    Hillary will NEVER be President
    Obama is a FORMER President
    Joe Biden is in Scranton eating paste.

  10. #25
    Member ILOVEDNY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mnb811 View Post
    Instead it went into a cover everyone plan with government mandates and therefore increasing the cost to people like myself. My premiums jumped bigtime. This is what you call an EPIC FAIL!!!! Everyone who didn't have insurance loves it because they think its "free". WRONG!!!!!
    My company's HI premium for family coverage.
    2008. $1,570/month.
    2012 (We renew on May 1st) $2,190/month.
    We pay half of the premium(100% for singles, 70% for couples)
    So my employees with family coverage will have to fork over $250/week.
    2 have already indicated they will drop the coverage.

    And of course we've been hit with mandates that caused this rise.
    Yet those so called exchanges are not available yet.
    So I guess my employees are SOL.
    Millions have lost their HI since Obamacare was passed.
    How can this be Mindless?
    Last edited by ILOVEDNY; March 17th, 2012 at 09:38 AM.
    Hillary will NEVER be President
    Obama is a FORMER President
    Joe Biden is in Scranton eating paste.

  11. #26
    Member Frank Broughton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mindcrime View Post
    In the long run, 30 Million more people will be covered, it will save us money over the next decade and reduce the deficit. That's the bottom line.
    How delusional can one be? It seems Obama is a wizard and has his followers under a spell.
    The above is opinion & commentary, I am exercising my 1st Amendment rights as a US citizen. Posts are NOT made with any malicious intent.

  12. #27
    Member Mindcrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Broughton View Post
    How delusional can one be? It seems Obama is a wizard and has his followers under a spell.
    And the entire CBO, apparently.
    Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. No one is entitled to their own facts.

  13. #28
    Member ILOVEDNY's Avatar
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    Millions have lost their HI since Obamacare was passed.
    How can this be Mindless?
    Hillary will NEVER be President
    Obama is a FORMER President
    Joe Biden is in Scranton eating paste.

  14. #29
    Member Mindcrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ILOVEDNY View Post
    Millions have lost their HI since Obamacare was passed.
    How can this be Mindless?
    *sigh* Duh. Hover over "2014," and tell the class what you see.
    Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. No one is entitled to their own facts.

  15. #30
    Member ILOVEDNY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mindcrime View Post
    *sigh* Duh. Hover over "2014," and tell the class what you see.
    Duh
    Do you ever read what you link?
    I followed the tabs on the Obamacare propaganda site.
    I put in the info. based on one of my employees who are going to drop coverage.
    You know what options your linked website gave me?

    1) Keep coverage via COBRA. Or pay $500/week when they couldn't afford $250/week.
    2) Don't get sick until 2014 or die early.

    Once again Mindless.
    If Obamacare was going to cover 30 million MORE Americans.
    How come the uninsured is up 17%?
    Hillary will NEVER be President
    Obama is a FORMER President
    Joe Biden is in Scranton eating paste.

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