Cedargrove- New Urbanism in Bflo?!?

[WNYresident]

The major source of moderate income housing in downtown Buffalo is the Marine Drive Apartments, but Gabe joins the posters calling to privatize it. The same with Cedargrove. It's one of poorest areas of Cheektowaga, and if it's torn down, there's no place for these residents to go except to Buffalo.

Cedarwood is sad.. Everyone is a part of the community wether rich or poor.. but poor is relative to your life style.

Any townboard which is willing to back something like this should be put out to pasture. If they do it to one group of people you may be next

[therising]

Originally posted by WNYresident
Any townboard which is willing to back something like this should be put out to pasture. If they do it to one group of people you may be next

Well put.

[moadib]

Wow, I have rarely read such blatant class warfare and bigotry against a community

FIRST, I READ ABOUT CEDARGROVE IN THE NEWSPAPER AND I REMEMBER READING THAT IT ADOPTED THE PRINCIPLES OF MIXED INCOME AND MULTI-USE PLANNING FOR THE COMMUNITY. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?
1) MULTI-USE: IT MEANS THE COMMUNITY INCLUDES RETAIL AND BUSINESS (WHICH TRANSLATES INTO COMMUNITY EMPLOYERS AND JOBS)
2) THE AVERAGE PRICE IS STILL AROUND $100,000 WHICH IS STILL VERY REASONABLE FOR BUFFALO
3) MIXED INCOME: CEDARGROVE INCLUDES A MIX OF HOMES, TOWNHOMES / ROWHOUSES, APARTMENTS / CONDOS TO MAKE THEM AFFORDABLE FOR A WIDER RANGE OF INCOMES.

What exactly is the idealized vision of stagnant and declining property values? I could understand if there was some architectural significance to the neighborhood but these were WWII prefab houses meant for wartime factory workers.

Lastly, what happens to neighborhoods with declining property values:
1) the equity for homeowners doesnt appreciate making the neighborhood an undesirable investment and eventually resulting in declining property values
2) declining property values mean less money for schools which means that the schools deterioate, which feeds the lower desirability of the neighborhood as an investment or a place to live.
3) when property values do not appreciate or are declining, its not worth maintaining or investing in their homes or in the community
4) poor schools and poorly maintained neighborhoods eventually deteriorate in value to the point where safety, drugs, crime, etc become an issue.
5) the result is that what was once a neighborhood of diversity of population and incomes....becomes homogenously poor and low income.

THIS IS NOT CLASS WARFARE! THIS IS NOT ABOUT A WAR AGAINST THE POOR, OR MIDDLE CLASS BY THE WEALTHY OR THE GOVERNMENT PLANNERS.

THIS IS ABOUT MAINTAINING THE VIBRANCY, STABILITY, DIVERSITY AND LIVABILITY OF THE COMMUNITY.

THIS IS ABOUT MAKING SURE THAT NEW COMMUNITIES INCOME PEOPLE OF LOW AND MIDDLE INCOME INSTEADING OF ZONING PEOPLE INTO COMMUNITIES BASED ON INCOME GROUP!

I ONLY WISH MORE OF ALL OF BUFFALO'S DISTRICTS COULD PLAN INFILL DEVELOPMENT ON THIS MODEL SO ALL OUR NEIGHBORHOODS WOULD BE VIBRANT AGAIN FOR ALL INCOMES!
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REMEMBER THIS FACT PRIOR TO WWII, THERE WERE STREET CARS AND NEIGHBORHOODS HAD MUCH MORE DIVERSITY OF INCOME. THE RICH AND POOR LIVED IN THE SAME COMMUNITIES, SHOPPED AT THE SAME STORES AND RODE ON THE SAME STREETS.

AFTER WWII, THE AIRPLANE REPLACED THE TRAIN, THE CAR REPLACED THE TROLLEY, AND HOMES WERE PREFABBED LOOK-LIKES ALL ROUGHLY THE SAME PRICE....MEANING COMMUNITIES WERE PLANNED BY INCOME GROUP....THE POOR HAD THEIR NEIGHBORHOODS AND THE RICH HAD THERES.

NEW URBANISM, IS BRINGING BACK THE DIVERSITY OF PREWAR COMMUNITIES AND PEOPLE SHOULD BE EMBRACING IT. EMBRACING THE FACT THAT LOW INCOME PEOPLE WILL NOT BE ZONED INTO A SPECIFIC AREA BUT PLANNED INTO NEW DEVELOPMENTS (INCLUDED RATHER THAN EXCLUDED)

THIS IS SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE EMBRACED!

[therising]

Moadib, first you said

"Wow, I have rarely read such blatant class warfare and bigotry against a community "

Then, you said:

"THIS IS NOT CLASS WARFARE! THIS IS NOT ABOUT A WAR AGAINST THE POOR, OR MIDDLE CLASS BY THE WEALTHY OR THE GOVERNMENT PLANNERS "

So, what gives? It IS "Class Warhare" or it's Not??

Besides, Moadib, how would you explain it to the 70-yr old woman who has been living there for the past 45 years? Would you say:

THIS IS ABOUT MAINTAINING THE VIBRANCY, STABILITY, DIVERSITY AND LIVABILITY OF THE COMMUNITY ..., and and BTW Old Lady, you simply don't fit into our plans.

Sayonara old lady, don't let the door hit your ass on the way out!

[moadib]

Let me clarify,

I inferred that readers opposed to CEDAR GROVE were interpreting it as class warfare and was responding to what readers had posted

I, however, do not believe this is class warfare as there is room planned for all income groups and was very clearly stated in the Buffalo News report about the number of homes, townhomes, apartments and businesses that were included in the design, allowing for a different mixed of needs and affordability including low income.

LOOK MY GRAND PARENTS HOME WAS SIEZED THROUGH IMMINENT DOMAIN IN BUFFALO FOR AN URBAN RENEWAL PROJECT SO THIS IS SOMETHING THAT I CAN SPEAK WITH EMPATHY AS TO HOW IT AFFECTED THEM AND OUR FAMILY.

First let me say that the article in the Buffalo News said that the CEDAR GROVE development would give existing residents discounts on purchasing in the new development and those discounts both make those low income units more affordable but will appreciate significantly more than what they have now, giving them the choice of staying or selling with a nice profit.

Second, I would recommend that a relocation package be put together to make any transition as low stress as possible for all who would be impacted. There are many real estate agents that specialize in corporate relocations for employees to help them find the best and most affordable neighborhood for them and their family which should be enlisted.

Third, yes by all means, Buffalo has a surplus of affordable housing from its declining population and if CEDAR GROVE works, then it will prove that all those empty lots all over Buffalo can be filled in with new developments profitably and with little risk. Furthermore, new residential development in Buffalo will stem sprawl and further anchor existing neighborhoods and schools from further deterioration.

SO GRANDMA, WE WANT YOU TO STAY AND WE WANT TO WORK WITH YOU AND OFFER OFF YOU A CHOICE OF A BUYOUT/RELOCATION OR SIGNIFICANT ENOUGH DISCOUNT TO MAKE IT AFFORDABLE FOR YOU TO STAY. I WOULD SAY THAT WE WANT TO MAKE THE COMMUNITY BETTER AND WE WANT YOUR LOVE FOR THE COMMUNITY TO STAY AND BE A PART OF OUR NEW COMMUNITY.

[moadib]

Oh, I wanted to add one thing....

I was on vacation recently at a wonderful and scenic part of the country and I was taking the bus to event....and who was sitting next to me but a really great husband and wife team...they asked me where I was from....I told them Buffalo.......they replied with excitement that they were from Buffalo, too!

After talking they told me the area of Buffalo they were from and I will never forget their story...

A man nearing retirement from a lifetime of faithful service to a local factory employer, they were a happy and lovely couple who raised beautiful kids...but when they talked about Buffalo they felt sad, betrayed and filled with regret. I asked why?

They said they bought their house in Buffalo with their first child and the neighborhood was good and it was diverse (different people and different incomes), the schools and playgrounds were good and they liked their neighbors, too! However, over the years they spent their money on their kids college education and stayed in the neighborhood...which stopped appreciating and in some years depreciated...as the neighborhood stopped appreciating...people moved out...people stopped maintaining and investing in their homes...eventually the homes were sold to lower and lower income families or foreclosed, abandoned, burned or demolished leaving the neighborhood pitted with empty lots.

They said, our home isnt worth very much....we are trapped where could we move...it hasnt appreciated that much since we bought it all those years ago

They said, we cant count on selling our home and moving to a lower income home and using the money to supplement our retirement because, again the house isnt worth that much.

So we are trapped, we will live out our retirement in that home and hope that the neighborhood comes back or our children take us in....we just never expected such a beautiful neighborhood to stagnate and decline....it certainly limited our options as we aged. If the neighborhood was better, I dont know that we would move or sell but atleast we would have had a choice. The way things worked out....we dont have any choices.

WHAT WOULD I SAY TO THE EXISTING RESIDENTS OF THE CEDAR GROVE Development....fate is giving you choices...choices to stay or choices to change...there are many people for whom choices have been taken from them.

[Linda_D]

Originally posted by WNYresident
Cedarwood is sad.. Everyone is a part of the community wether rich or poor.. but poor is relative to your life style.

Any townboard which is willing to back something like this should be put out to pasture. If they do it to one group of people you may be next

My sentiments exactly.

[crlachepinochet]

The developers aren't quite as heartless as most people would like to picture them. There have always been plans to assist anyone who leaves the Cedargrove area in finding a new home. I'm sure there are other areas just as affordable... probably in Cheektowaga, too.

I've talked to Dominic Piestrak personally, and he seems to care about the people that may be forced out. It's kinda funny to hear him talk; he sounds kinda like he considers this finding career religion. The funny thing for me is that everyone praises his sprawl developments like Spaulding and this other development over by Maple/Ayer, and now that he's happy with what he's building, there's a huge controversy.

There will be funding to help the people who don't want to leave to move up to a new home in Renaissance Village. For some people, there may still be a gap between the most affordable new home and the total money they receive. My real problem is that I've heard wildly different numbers for what the cheapest new homes will be: anywhere from 80K to 120K. $80,000 for a new build in an in-demand neighborhood is not bad at all.

[WestCoastPerspective]

"We are low to moderate income," said Dowski. "We don't want to change that."


^^^from today's Buffalo News.

Sheeesh Dowski- Set some realistic goals for yourself!

[Linda_D]

moadib, I don't necessarily oppose new development at Cedargrove. I oppose the government using eminent domain to force people out of their homes so that this "Renaissance Village" can be built, particularly since they would have to take whatever the government says their homes are worth.

Whether the intention of the developer is to push poor people out or not, that's the result. The current homes in Cedargrove aren't worth anything close to what a new home in "Renaissance Village" will cost. Add in higher taxes, and there's no way these old folks on fixed incomes are going to be able to afford to live in their old neighborhoods. There's no way that the renters currently in Cedargrove are going to afford the new appartments, either, and that's assuming that these apartments are suitable for families with children.

Moreover, I won't acquit Cheektowaga supervisor, Gabryszak, of trying to get rid of poor people. That the town has not cracked down on landlords to bring their buildings up to town code leads me to believe that he wants this area to get so bad that he can use its condition to clear it. If a town is committed to maintaining and improving older neighborhoods, it can be done.

[Linda_D]

Originally posted by WestCoastPerspective
"We are low to moderate income," said Dowski. "We don't want to change that."


^^^from today's Buffalo News.

Sheeesh Dowski- Set some realistic goals for yourself!

Perhaps you shouldn't have taken the quote out of context, WCP. It's hard to reply to your post when nobody knows what you're talking about. That fact is, Lee Dowski was talking about the Cedargrove neighborhood.

Here's the entire story:

Overflow crowd protests plan to demolish neighborhood
By BARBARA O'BRIEN
News Southtowns Bureau
5/3/2005

Chanting, "Our homes are not for sale," residents of Cedargrove Heights protested outside Cheektowaga Town Hall on Monday night. Inside Town Hall, they told the Town Board what they think of a proposal to tear down their homes to make way for a new mixed-use community.

"We did ask for your help numerous times," said Lee Dowski. "We did not ask you to help yourselves to our homes."

Developer Dominic Piestrak has proposed building 300 single-family homes, 175 brownstones and 130 row houses as well as businesses at Cedargrove. The existing homes and businesses would have to be demolished. While the plan is preliminary and has not received Town Board approval, Piestrak said he would like to pay owners above the fair market value for their property.

Supervisor Dennis H. Gabryszak praised residents for attending Monday's Town Board meeting and showing their concern for their neighborhood, but he said there aren't answers yet to all of their questions.

"You really need a time frame of what's going to happen," he said.

When residents asked which board members oppose the proposal, one council member, Thomas M. Johnson Jr., raised his hand. He said the Town Board would discuss the proposal soon.

"We're going to review telling that developer, "That's it,' " Johnson said to applause.

The overflow crowd filled the 100 or so seats in the Council Chambers and spilled into the hall, cheering as residents spoke.

"We stand with the residents against this development," said the Rev. Dorothy B. Pearman, pastor of Maryvale Drive Presbyterian Church. "It's a justice issue."

Under the plan, the church would be moved to another street within the development.

"The reality is, the majority will not be able to buy into the new community," Pearman said.

"We are low to moderate income," said Dowski. "We don't want to change that."

When asked about a town-owned property in the neighborhood on Winwood Court with rats and broken windows, Gabryszak directed Building Inspector Thomas Adamczak to review the property today and come up with suggestions. Adamczak said Monday night the property could be demolished or cleaned up and its windows covered with boards.

[Boost Buffalo]

Originally posted by Linda_D

Here's the entire story:

...Chanting, "Our homes are not for sale," residents of Cedargrove Heights protested outside Cheektowaga Town Hall on Monday night.

Living within a society can be distracting...I suppose. Looks like Cheek has found a way to increase the tax base. Thats not a bad thing for the masses.

And if you listen real close to the displaced resident's chants, you'll hear "WE WANT MORE FRIGGEN MONEY!"

Everything is for sale, its just a matter of "how much?".

[Linda_D]

Originally posted by Boost Buffalo
Everything is for sale, its just a matter of "how much?".

Speak for yourself.

[WNYresident]

2) THE AVERAGE PRICE IS STILL AROUND $100,000 WHICH IS STILL VERY REASONABLE FOR BUFFALO

Do you know how many people can't afford a $100,000 home because of the property tax? I can't believe personally that my land usage fee (TAX) is about $375 or so a month on my home. People say are property taxes are on average 42% HIGHER THAN everywhere else. If I was paying 42% less then my monthly monopoly of government services would cost me $217 or so a month. Little easier to swallow.

I dont care how they twist it, how they try to debate it we just pay our local/county/state emplpyees on average too much. NOT everyone of them, just most of them.

[WestCoastPerspective]

The full story doesn't change the context. She's happy with her run-down, blighted moderate income neighborhood. Well, good for her and her family.