volunteer vs paid firefighters

[jennifer7]

well if we merge everything schools. police etc, how about
firefighters. we will have to have a county wide paid fire service
correct, or will everybody in the county have to pay for city of
buffalo paid firefighters and we get stuck with the volunteers,
I don't think so, they have to hire 1,600 firefighters, appartus
costs, stations,equipment,heath insurance,benefits,vacation.
training estimated cost around 220 million a year, weres the
money gonna come from ?????????

[moonshine]

we get stuck with the volunteers

I'll take the volunteer firefighter over the union firefighter any day of the week. The volunteer has a passion for firefighting and inherent interest in helping his community. The union guy has a different agenda. You would probably see the quality of fire service increase if it were converted to an entirely volunteer force.

Of course, we wouldn't get a bunch of federal money to install useless homeland security gadgets, but that is a different thread.

I'm with you jennifer7. Eliminating the county is the most direct way to reduce the burden of government. Let the municipalities partner to provide services where there is benefit, but don't ram a one size fits all regionalism down my throat.

It's not like it matters. By the time regionalism gets implemented (doubt it) I'll be long gone.

[Night Owl]

Like I said in the thread about schools; the other municipalities will go untouched. Just the City of Buffalo will undergo a transformation in County Governments.

All of the towns/villages with volunteer fire departmetns will remain as they are.

[WNYresident]

Originally posted by jennifer7
well if we merge everything schools. police etc, how about
firefighters. we will have to have a county wide paid fire service
correct, or will everybody in the county have to pay for city of
buffalo paid firefighters and we get stuck with the volunteers,
I don't think so, they have to hire 1,600 firefighters, appartus
costs, stations,equipment,heath insurance,benefits,vacation.
training estimated cost around 220 million a year, weres the
money gonna come from ?????????

Except for the insane money wasted on thier firehall/bars/rec centers the volunteer firemen are really good. Don't knock em.

[SolarEclipse]

Some of those firehalls are REALLY nice - but if they rent them out for wedding receptions and the like and make money off of them... I have no problem with that.

[moonshine]

The wonderful thing about volunteer fire departments is that people realize there is a need for the service and voluntarily contribute.

Those firehalls (aka bars/rec centers) are financed by voluntary money, not taxes.

[WNYresident]

Originally posted by SolarEclipse
Some of those firehalls are REALLY nice - but if they rent them out for wedding receptions and the like and make money off of them... I have no problem with that.

Oh GREAT! Subsidized businesses. There are places that already rent halls in the PRIVATE SECTOR.

[WNYresident]

Originally posted by moonshine
The wonderful thing about volunteer fire departments is that people realize there is a need for the service and voluntarily contribute.

Those firehalls (aka bars/rec centers) are financed by voluntary money, not taxes.

SO there's absolutely no tax payer money in any form what so ever going to pay for the halls? It's 100% by donations? That is awesome. I didn't know that. I thought they applied for grants and got funding of some sort from the tax payer. Thats very cool.

[moonshine]

WNYResident, I'm a small town mountain topper from the appalachian region of PA. We funded our fire departments 100% out of pocket.

If a "volunteer" fire company is receiving government subsidies I would not send a dime.

I was speaking of the companies that rely 100% on the contributions of taxpayer, not tax collectors.

[Riven37]

Originally posted by jennifer7
well if we merge everything schools. police etc, how about
firefighters. we will have to have a county wide paid fire service
correct, or will everybody in the county have to pay for city of
buffalo paid firefighters and we get stuck with the volunteers,
I don't think so, they have to hire 1,600 firefighters, appartus
costs, stations,equipment,heath insurance,benefits,vacation.
training estimated cost around 220 million a year, weres the
money gonna come from ?????????

I have always been for a Universal Firefighter System across the Country. Meaning all firefighters would work under one Departmental system and pay would be based on Experience, Cost, Time in grade, just to name a few.

All states would pay the system through there Tax base called Fire Protection Tax. Yes, this would be a new Tax in all states and they could not change this Tax system at all.

1. It would Increase personnel.
2. Increase pay base for those woh are pay less in some state.
3. Increase top of the line firefighhting equipment to do the job better.
4. One Union.
5. One Uniform.
6. One color...RED.

just to mention a few.

[crlachepinochet]

That may be all well and good, but do you want to kill off all these extra firefighters that will be hired? The lime/white fire engines, even though I don't like them myself, are safer .

[LHardy]

I am a former Volunteer Fire fighter and E.M.T. There are basically three kinds of volunteer systems at work here in WNY.

1) A Sub contracted Fire system - Fire companies are owned by its' members and individual towns contract to them to protect a given area. IE- Jamison Road Fire Co. in Elma

2) Fire Districts - townships pay direct taxes for these services and elections are held where by the town votes for supervisors of the FD. IE - Springbrook FD in Elma, Colden FD

3) Town owned - Town taxes are taken from your county property tax given to the town to pay for FD. Company elections of Chiefs and so on are held only with the FD members. IE - Elma FD

All very efficient and as stated by others highly dedicated.
The paid FD people do dedicate their lives to what they do and I know they really care. The problem is the amount of down time they have between calls. The BFD respondes to all calls including medical where Rural Metro or other paid ambulance service is also responding. BFD is paid well and they do a great job but like all government departments there is waste that could be controlled and a union that has a lot of pull. Good Luck changing that.

As far as the VFD having nice halls and bars. They use them to attract volunteers and raise money for equipment. Today most bars in the halls have been shut down or used very little unlike the old days. VFD have to train as hard as the paid service FD because of NYS laws and insurance. Not to long ago all FD where volunteer including the city FD. So it could work agian. Just got to get past the unions.

[Linda_D]

Originally posted by IAMGONEFROMHERE
Not to long ago all FD where volunteer including the city FD. So it could work agian. Just got to get past the unions.

Actually, IAMGONE, it was quite long ago. All Buffalo volunteer fire companies were disbanded in 1880 and replaced with a paid professional department.

I think that it's far more likely that the larger suburbs will start moving towards paid forces in the next few decades than for the cities to return to volunteer departments. If you live in a small town or in the older parts of many suburbs, the VFD is part of the community, and joining or supporting the VFD is sort of like joining a church. What I saw when I lived in suburban Albany, however, was that residents living in the newer and more expensive subdivisions simply didn't bother to join their local fire companies or support their fund-raising efforts -- they had better things to do. The town I lived in, Colonie, opted to hire professional EMTs because they couldn't get enough volunteers, particularly during the day.

[Deerhunter]

I've seen instances where there is no way on the planet Rural Metro employees would be able to get the person out of the house. Sometimes the Emt's are 120lb girls. They could never carry out someone on a body board. The Firemen sometimes have a hard time. I thought thats why they (BFD) went to the first aid calls. Plus Emts don't have extraction/breaching equiptment.

[WNYresident]

I agree 100% with deerhunter. How would 3 120 pound EMT's pull a 450 pound man out of a house while it's burning? It happens. NOT often but it does happen.

Does anyone know if you are a paid buffalo firemen must you fit certian size requirements?