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Thread: State set to get tax on Indian cigarette sales

  1. #1
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    State set to get tax on Indian cigarette sales

    State set to get tax on Indian cigarette sales

    A ruling Monday by a federal appeals court prompted state officials to begin planning to collect taxes on cigarette sales from Indians to non-Indian customers.

    The effort announced by Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo sets up a potential confrontation between the state and Native Americans who call the taxation an assault on their sovereignty and economic well-being.

    The state Tax Department was expected to post tax-collection guidelines on its website Monday night -- the first legal step for what Cuomo administration officials said will be an immediate requirement that wholesalers charge the state's $4.35-per-pack excise tax on every pack of cigarettes sold to Indian retailers.
    Read the full story in the Buffalo News

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    Quote Originally Posted by WNYresident View Post
    State set to get tax on Indian cigarette sales



    Read the full story in the Buffalo News
    I was thrilled learning of ruling on this AM's news... it's about time.

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    Member 300miles's Avatar
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    We've been here before. The courts say the state has the "right". Will the state actually try to do it though? Are they willing to deal with burning tires on the thruway? How far are they willing to take this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 300miles View Post
    We've been here before. The courts say the state has the "right". Will the state actually try to do it though? Are they willing to deal with burning tires on the thruway? How far are they willing to take this?
    I hear what you are saying... I am sure this will get interesting.

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    30+ jobs to be lost at Attea Bros, and countless hundreds others lost at the reservation gas-n-smoke shops.

    Wonderful that you feel "thrilled" about this ichingtheory.


    If the untaxed cigarettes arent sold on the indian reservations, there will be little incentive for people to go there for gasoline sales. Basically, the Senecas (and other nations in NY) will suffer severe financial hardships.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkLV View Post
    If the untaxed cigarettes arent sold on the indian reservations, there will be little incentive for people to go there for gasoline sales. Basically, the Senecas (and other nations in NY) will suffer severe financial hardships.

    Just think, the stores at the current competitive disadvantage will be able to hire those indians to make up for all of the new business they'll see.

    Those gas stations and smoke shops are a dime a dozen on the Catt. They're like squatters for crying out loud...

    Regardless, the crazy point of this article is the $4.35/pack tax!

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    Quote Originally Posted by FisherRd View Post
    Just think, the stores at the current competitive disadvantage will be able to hire those indians to make up for all of the new business they'll see.

    Those gas stations and smoke shops are a dime a dozen on the Catt. They're like squatters for crying out loud...

    Regardless, the crazy point of this article is the $4.35/pack tax!

    I think you'd be hard pressed to prove examples of many stores that are largely affected by the current competitive disadvantage. People still buy cigarettes at non-rez stores that even border along the Indian places. I live about 10 miles from the Irving, NY Seneca reservation. Gas stations selling smokes do brisk business all along the roads leading to Irving.



    But yes, the idea of taxing a carton of cigarettes $44 is insane.


    Maybe the Indians will circumvent the situation by selling cigarettes manufactured on tribal land. But I doubt thats going to save them. I've sampled their brands, and dont like the flavor/taste very much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkLV View Post
    I think you'd be hard pressed to prove examples of many stores that are largely affected by the current competitive disadvantage. People still buy cigarettes at non-rez stores that even border along the Indian places. I live about 10 miles from the Irving, NY Seneca reservation. Gas stations selling smokes do brisk business all along the roads leading to Irving.

    It logically follows that if the tax will put stores on the Res out of business because such large numbers of people will stop buying them there that those same people will buy them elsewhere (as in the stores by their homes/work). That's good news for non-Res retailers. If they weren't getting those customers before because of the competitive disadvantage then they were being hurt by it.

    But yes, the idea of taxing a carton of cigarettes $44 is insane.
    I don't smoke, but I remember cartons being less than half the cost of that tax alone! I'm under 40, so I'm sure smokes were about a buck a pack in my lifetime, but for some reason I remember the $20/carton at the res as well as the $.79/gallon at JR's

    Maybe the Indians will circumvent the situation by selling cigarettes manufactured on tribal land. But I doubt thats going to save them. I've sampled their brands, and dont like the flavor/taste very much.
    I don't think you're alone on that one. Truth be told, the price differential will probably gte a lot of people to get used to the bad taste of the Res Smokes...

    I think you guys (smokers) are treated like 2nd class citizens, and although some aspects of that make me happy (I don't smell like an ashtray after a fish fry), I realize it's BS to shun a legal activity and take away choice from business owners.

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    Member DR_GONZO's Avatar
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    Glad to see NYS looking out for those retailers at a competitive disadvantage. Can't wait for NYS to go after communist chinese imports and the competitive disadvantage brought on by this as well!

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    So Judge Donna Siwek issued a restraining order today. I'm not her biggest fan, but this helps stop the guilotine coming down, at least for a little while.

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    Member nogods's Avatar
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    I think NYS would be better served by giving smokers an unlimited supply of free cigarettes. The sooner the dummies Rick Martin themselves the better. We need to thin out the heard.

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    Member dtwarren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkLV View Post
    So Judge Donna Siwek issued a restraining order today. I'm not her biggest fan, but this helps stop the guilotine coming down, at least for a little while.
    From what is being reported the TRO is only in regards to the Seneca. They filed an action on SAPA grounds back in February. Even if they win it will be short lived because the regs will just be re-promulgated now that the federal issues are pretty much resolved.
    Last edited by dtwarren; May 11th, 2011 at 06:47 AM.
    “We in America do not have government by the majority. We have government by the majority who participate.” ― Thomas Jefferson

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    Thanks for that clarification. I just figured it covered all of NYS.

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    Member dtwarren's Avatar
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    It looks like the initial reports were incorrect. Here is a copy of the TRO: http://www.tax.ny.gov/bus/cig/siwek_...r_05_10_11.pdf
    “We in America do not have government by the majority. We have government by the majority who participate.” ― Thomas Jefferson

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkLV View Post
    30+ jobs to be lost at Attea Bros, and countless hundreds others lost at the reservation gas-n-smoke shops.

    Wonderful that you feel "thrilled" about this ichingtheory.


    If the untaxed cigarettes arent sold on the indian reservations, there will be little incentive for people to go there for gasoline sales. Basically, the Senecas (and other nations in NY) will suffer severe financial hardships.
    Non tax sales were NEVER meant to be enjoyed by anyone other than the Indian Nation, end of story.

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