Donn E.'s math 101

[cookie]

So Donn Esmond and many preservationists believe the taxpayers should pony up $5.5 mil now to save the Statler rather than pay $15 mil later to demo it.
Donn thinks the math is simple, however, as much as I'd love to see the Statler saved, I have a few questions.
That $5.5 mil is the estimate for stabilization, NOT complete reno.
What are the estimates for the complete reno (give or take a few mil)?

If the city gives Croce and Eagan that money, what guarantee does the taxpayer have that they have the resources to complete the project?

Or will they merely recoup their $200,000 and stabilize the building which would allow it to sit for 5 or 10 more years?

If this is such a no-brainer, why is it still sitting there waiting for a white knight to come charging forth?

If Croce and Eagan are serious, why not try for some kind of "step" agreement - AFTER the building is stabilized (ie, they have made a serious commitment), the city will knock $xx dollars off the taxes owed and possibly some additional incentive, repeat as necessary.

What the area does NOT need is to spend $5.5 million and get nothing but an empty, albeit stable landmark.

[WNYresident]

I think the question should be asked is if there is a need for more of the space the staler would offer. To move clients from one building to another is not an net gain at all. Just like when you use an incentive to move a company from buffalo to lancaster or to amherst etc... It's not creating growth it's just moving people around the community who then get a discount in taxes. I think as a community we gain nothing from that.

An incentive to pull a business into WNY is one thing but to must move people around seems lame. BUT not really if you are part of the IDA. Isn't it correct that they get a cut of the incentive.. ?

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

Back in August there were two groups interested in the Statler. Croce and Eagan had their paperwork in order and another group called My Dynasty did not. Because the courts ruled My Dynasty did not have the right paperwork in time, they were not allowed to bid.

My Dynasty was working with Cleveland developer John Ferchill.

They were considering multi-use redevelopment that would include a 235-room hotel and 111 apartments, plus an office and restaurant/retail component. The development price was between $85 million and $100 million


Ferchill, unlike Croce or Eagan has tackled expensive renovation projects, including the conversion of the former Book-Cadillac Hotel in Detroit into the Westin Book Cadillac Hotel, which was a $200 million project.





How could a 'reporter' fail to even suggest looking at My Dynasty and Ferchill again? Makes you think that Donn is just on the take and trying to send money the way of connected Croce.

[Bioguy231]

A major problem with the Statler is LACK OF PARKING. If you turned the entire building into office space and condos, the people working and living there would have NO PARKING. Maybe everyone is banking on the future residents and tenants of the Statler to use the NFTA Subway System.

[cookie]

Doesn't the plan call for 235 hotel rooms?
Is it too much to ask hotel guests to to park a few blocks away (and carry their luggage)? Sounds like great exercise to me. Could be a good marketing feature, right?

[Linda_D]

I think the question should be asked is if there is a need for more of the space the staler would offer. To move clients from one building to another is not an net gain at all. Just like when you use an incentive to move a company from buffalo to lancaster or to amherst etc... It's not creating growth it's just moving people around the community who then get a discount in taxes. I think as a community we gain nothing from that.

An incentive to pull a business into WNY is one thing but to must move people around seems lame. BUT not really if you are part of the IDA. Isn't it correct that they get a cut of the incentive.. ?

B-I-N-G-O!!! When I drove up Delaware last Saturday, I was shocked at how many "For Lease"/"Leasing" signs I saw, especially downtown, in buildings that were obvious building/commerical sites.

I am skeptical that the market for pricey office space/hotel rooms/condos in rehabbed downtown buildings is nearly as high as many downtown boosters think/claim it is. Moreover, it's likely that the HSBC Tower will become available to new leasees in a few years.

I also don't think the Statler is that historically/architecturally significant a building to warrant the COB pouring millions into stabilizing it. Buffalo is NOT a museum, and even if it were, it can't afford to keep every old building. The Prudential Building is a national treasure worth saving because it was built by Louis Sullivan and is one of the first steel frame "skyscrapers" ever built in the US. The Richardson Complex at the Buffalo State Hospital is also worthy of saving because it was built by another legendary architect (HH Richardson) and is a marvelous example of the Gothic Revival style public architecture of the mid 1800s. The Darwin Martin House is another example of a building worth preserving and restoring because of its architect (Frank Lloyd Wright) and its design.

The Statler is simply NOT in the same league as those three buildings. It also looks rather incongruous on Niagara Square because of its juxtaposition to the new federal courthouse with its curves and glass and the classic Art Deco style of Buffalo City Hall -- and that's before you notice its boarded up windows and deteriorating exterior.

I think that the Statler has come to the end of its useful life. If the city stabilizes it now, that building will sit there useless for another 10 or 15 years -- and the city will end up taking it down anyways. It's simply too big to be a viable rehab project.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

B-I-N-G-O!!! When I drove up Delaware last Saturday, I was shocked at how many "For Lease"/"Leasing" signs I saw, especially downtown, in buildings that were obvious building/commerical sites.

I am skeptical that the market for pricey office space/hotel rooms/condos in rehabbed downtown buildings is nearly as high as many downtown boosters think/claim it is. Moreover, it's likely that the HSBC Tower will become available to new leasees in a few years.

I also don't think the Statler is that historically/architecturally significant a building to warrant the COB pouring millions into stabilizing it. Buffalo is NOT a museum, and even if it were, it can't afford to keep every old building. The Prudential Building is a national treasure worth saving because it was built by Louis Sullivan and is one of the first steel frame "skyscrapers" ever built in the US. The Richardson Complex at the Buffalo State Hospital is also worthy of saving because it was built by another legendary architect (HH Richardson) and is a marvelous example of the Gothic Revival style public architecture of the mid 1800s. The Darwin Martin House is another example of a building worth preserving and restoring because of its architect (Frank Lloyd Wright) and its design.

The Statler is simply NOT in the same league as those three buildings. It also looks rather incongruous on Niagara Square because of its juxtaposition to the new federal courthouse with its curves and glass and the classic Art Deco style of Buffalo City Hall -- and that's before you notice its boarded up windows and deteriorating exterior.

I think that the Statler has come to the end of its useful life. If the city stabilizes it now, that building will sit there useless for another 10 or 15 years -- and the city will end up taking it down anyways. It's simply too big to be a viable rehab project.

Demo should be the last resort IMO...at least for a couple more years.

I see your point but that hotel has a tremendous amt of steel in it, plus the brick and lots of asbestos. It is built like a bomb shelter, so to speak. Even taking it down is going to be expensive, not sure of the numbers but I would guess north of $15 million.

Who knows...maybe Andy Cuomo will turn NYS around...

[ERIEMAN]

A major problem with the Statler is LACK OF PARKING. If you turned the entire building into office space and condos, the people working and living there would have NO PARKING. Maybe everyone is banking on the future residents and tenants of the Statler to use the NFTA Subway System.

I thought that was one of the benefits of having Croce on this project - he owns all of the strategic parking lots around the statler.

[Riven37]

Buffalo is guilty of one real issue while other cities have made real change in there city environments. Buffalo likes to keep old eye sores in place rather making way for the new. Buffalo has been stuck in the past its entire existence. The Statler had its day my brothers worked there, I worked there during its hey days. It is time to let go of the old and bring in the new. "LET THE OLD GIRL DIE WITH HONOR, TAKE HER DOWN."

[PickOranges]

All the developers always have their hand out..

Why can't it be a loan?

Why can't it be a partnership where the taxpayers have a piece of the action and are able to sell their portion or be bought out later.

Then we can recycle this revolving loan fund..

[speaker]

Buffalo is guilty of one real issue while other cities have made real change in there city environments. Buffalo likes to keep old eye sores in place rather making way for the new. Buffalo has been stuck in the past its entire existence. The Statler had its day my brothers worked there, I worked there during its hey days. It is time to let go of the old and bring in the new. "LET THE OLD GIRL DIE WITH HONOR, TAKE HER DOWN."

I don't agree, Riv.
I worked there years ago as a hostess in the Cafe Rouge, and I loved the whole place. Just the marble alone is worth a fortune but it has so much to offer. Lots of shortsighted people who have the money and can't be bothered. The class of the place! Could be used for many different venues as well as apartments, offices, hotel or even a small theatre, restaurants, shops and more.Buffalo won't always be as it is now.