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Thread: Let's see what happens this time - gun control

  1. #31
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    To all of my fellow gun supporters who believe that all of us who are law abiding citizens have the right to bear arms if we choose to do so:

    You have made an excellent and good faith effort by making the facts available as to why gun control is not only illogical but a violation of our constitution. Unfortunately there are those who are so afraid of firearms or have such a strong emotional feeling against guns that no amount of logical reasoning will at least allow for those of us who enjoy recreational shooting and hunting to participate in this enjoyable pastime or defend ourselves against the bad guys.

    It's unfortunate that they have to start with personal attacks such as with mikenold's Christianity when they can't win by their own arguments. That usually shows a sign of desperation because they have run out of evidence to support their case.

  2. #32
    Member NBuffaloResident's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nogods View Post
    More inane logic, by which one would have to conclude that sole purpose of a car is to burn fossil fuels and pollute the environment because every time a car is used fossil fuels are burned and the environment is polluted.

    We don't shoot at clay pigeons, paper targets,or game animals to destroy them. We shoot at targets to record skill, and game animals for food. Your silly notions lead to silly conclusions.
    No, the purpose of an automobile is to provide transportation, at a rate faster than walking.

    You shoot at targets to record skill of what? Being able to hit your target and destroy it.

    Sure, you hunt game animals for food. Do you need an AR15 for that? Or, would a black powder muzzle loader do the trick?

    End result: The gun is a weapon. Weapons are designed for one purpose: To kill or maim.

    Or, are you saying I should be able to freely walk about with a rapier on my hip?
    Raptor Jesus: He went extinct for your sins.

  3. #33
    Member run4it's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NBuffaloResident View Post
    No, the purpose of an automobile is to provide transportation, at a rate faster than walking.

    You shoot at targets to record skill of what? Being able to hit your target and destroy it.

    Sure, you hunt game animals for food. Do you need an AR15 for that? Or, would a black powder muzzle loader do the trick?

    End result: The gun is a weapon. Weapons are designed for one purpose: To kill or maim.

    Or, are you saying I should be able to freely walk about with a rapier on my hip?
    Playing Errol Flynn on your off days?
    But your being a dick
    ~Wnyresident

  4. #34
    Member run4it's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HisSon View Post
    To all of my fellow gun supporters who believe that all of us who are law abiding citizens have the right to bear arms if we choose to do so:

    You have made an excellent and good faith effort by making the facts available as to why gun control is not only illogical but a violation of our constitution. Unfortunately there are those who are so afraid of firearms or have such a strong emotional feeling against guns that no amount of logical reasoning will at least allow for those of us who enjoy recreational shooting and hunting to participate in this enjoyable pastime or defend ourselves against the bad guys.

    It's unfortunate that they have to start with personal attacks such as with mikenold's Christianity when they can't win by their own arguments. That usually shows a sign of desperation because they have run out of evidence to support their case.

    Do me a favor, dissect the 2nd amendment for me.

    Also, Mike's commitment (rather, lack thereof) to Christian values extends well beyond and prior to (and more presciently) this argument. It's just another example.
    But your being a dick
    ~Wnyresident

  5. #35
    Member nogods's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by run4it View Post
    Y A child is however many hundred times more likely to be just injured in a car accident than be molested by a pedophile...but we still have laws against molestation, don't we?

    Talk about silly logic...
    Do you always just make stuff up?

    According to the National Committee for Prevention of Child Abuse, approximately 900,000 children are abused each year. Of this number, 8.8 percent are sexually abused.

    That's 79,640 children sexually abused per year.

    A child is 20 times more likely to be sexually abused than die in a car accident.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by nogods View Post
    Do you always just make stuff up?

    According to the National Committee for Prevention of Child Abuse, approximately 900,000 children are abused each year. Of this number, 8.8 percent are sexually abused.

    That's 79,640 children sexually abused per year.

    A child is 20 times more likely to be sexually abused than die in a car accident.
    I didn't say die in a car accident...I said injured.

    And the pedophile thing was an example, and you know it. I could say the same about levels of flouride in the water....or lead paint on toys, etc. All are far less likely to injur children than cars (or other implements), yet are still regulated. Again, you have failed to address the main point, mostly because you can't.
    But your being a dick
    ~Wnyresident

  7. #37
    Member run4it's Avatar
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    For your memory and edification, your question was:

    Quote Originally Posted by nogods View Post
    Silly stats - suicide rate won't drop by outlawing guns. They'll just kill themselves with cars - which by the way kill way more people every year than both legal and illegal guns - so why doesn't the FAMASS advocate the outlawing of cars? Because they are silly hoplophobics.
    I answered your question on multiple levels, multiple times, and even expanded.

    By the way, you really shouldn't paint me as completely anti-gun. My views are probably quite different than what you assume. I DO however understand the nuance and context of legal and philosophic arguments, which so many seem to miss (or rather ignore).
    But your being a dick
    ~Wnyresident

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by NBuffaloResident View Post
    No, the purpose of an automobile is to provide transportation, at a rate faster than walking.

    And seeing a drunk can get behind the wheel of a car wouldn't you say it would be wise to limit the speed to twice the speed of walking? This way no one could ever be hurt? Just to be safe you know.


    You shoot at targets to record skill of what? Being able to hit your target and destroy it.

    You shoot at targets to learn how your rifle fires and to practice practice practice. WHY? Because one day someone might want your stuff, or is crazy, or is just a sick evil person, or gangs take over (we see how well law enforcement is containing that) or maybe the commies might land on the shores of Lake Erie. What are you going to do? Negotiate?


    Sure, you hunt game animals for food. Do you need an AR15 for that? Or, would a black powder muzzle loader do the trick?

    Well of course you do. Lets say you have a muzzle loader and wound your game. Why make them suffer when you can while your busy reloading your muzzle loader? With an AR you can pop off another well place round plus I believe a good AR if more accurate than a muzzle loader.



    End result: The gun is a weapon. Weapons are designed for one purpose: To kill or maim.

    A refresher

    WHY? Because one day someone might want your stuff, or is crazy, or is just a sick evil person, or gangs take over (we see how well law enforcement is containing that) or maybe the commies might land on the shores of Lake Erie. What are you going to do? Negotiate?

    Or, are you saying I should be able to freely walk about with a rapier on my hip?

    If you wanna be laughed at go right ahead

    Rapier Now that was funny.

  9. #39
    Member run4it's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by run4it View Post
    Do me a favor, dissect the 2nd amendment for me.
    Hissy? You out there? This was an assignment for you (though anyone else is welcome to some extra credit)
    But your being a dick
    ~Wnyresident

  10. #40
    Member nogods's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by run4it View Post
    For your memory and edification, your question was:


    I answered your question on multiple levels, multiple times, and even expanded.

    By the way, you really shouldn't paint me as completely anti-gun. My views are probably quite different than what you assume. I DO however understand the nuance and context of legal and philosophic arguments, which so many seem to miss (or rather ignore).
    No you did not - every time you tried to respond you used faulty logic or inaccurate facts.

    Guns used by criminals are a problem that should be addressed.

    Guns owned by law abiding citizens cause far fewer problems than other common items like cars and pools and household cleaning products. We can reduce accidents from guns owned by law abiding citizens the same way we reduce accidents from more hazardous items like cars and pools and household cleaning products - through education and safety laws, not through prohibition.

    People who focus on gun control for law abiding citizens are missing the point in two ways: they are focusing on the wrong source and they are ignoring more dangerous instruments in their irrational phobia about guns.

    another example: illegal use of prescriptions drugs is a societal problem. You don't solve that problem by outlawing prescription drugs.

  11. #41
    Member nogods's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by run4it View Post
    Hissy? You out there? This was an assignment for you (though anyone else is welcome to some extra credit)
    No need to - the SCOTUS already did. The Second Amendment prohibits the federal government from banning all handguns.

    And it looks like the SCOTUS will hold that the 2nd applies to the States as well, which is an issue not dependent on the 2nd itself, but rather the 14th.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by nogods View Post
    No you did not - every time you tried to respond you used faulty logic or inaccurate facts.

    Guns used by criminals are a problem that should be addressed.

    Guns owned by law abiding citizens cause far fewer problems than other common items like cars and pools and household cleaning products. We can reduce accidents from guns owned by law abiding citizens the same way we reduce accidents from more hazardous items like cars and pools and household cleaning products - through education and safety laws, not through prohibition.

    People who focus on gun control for law abiding citizens are missing the point in two ways: they are focusing on the wrong source and they are ignoring more dangerous instruments in their irrational phobia about guns.

    another example: illegal use of prescriptions drugs is a societal problem. You don't solve that problem by outlawing prescription drugs.
    We'll try one more time: You asked why some groups are so fixated on restricting guns to the point of ignoring other possible dangers.

    Guns have one purpose: to destroy. That is the biggest way they can be classified against other "dangerous" items, such as automobiles and given increased scrutiny.

    Further, groups HAVE attempted (quite successfully) to regulate automobiles. Your very premise that there is a fixation on guns to the ignoring of other problems is faulty.


    As for drugs, uh, there are whole lists of drugs that are outlawed...And "prescription" drugs, the prescription is a very heavy regulation all on its own. At least with gun registration you don't have to show a "pressing need", like with medicine.

    These are all facts in direct response to your query. You have not tried, nor will you be able to, refute them.

    Have you seen an argument from any kind of serious authority that we can or should outlaw all guns?
    Last edited by run4it; March 3rd, 2010 at 05:24 PM.
    But your being a dick
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  13. #43
    Member run4it's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nogods View Post
    No need to - the SCOTUS already did. The Second Amendment prohibits the federal government from banning all handguns.

    And it looks like the SCOTUS will hold that the 2nd applies to the States as well, which is an issue not dependent on the 2nd itself, but rather the 14th.
    Actually SCOTUS decided starting 140 years ago that it doesn't apply to the states.

    And the lawyer who most recently tried to argue against the precedent was even laughed at by Scalia.

    But yes, we shall see.

    And I wasn't interested in the Supreme Court's parsing. I wanted to see yours (well, actually Hissy's, but you're welcome too).

    edit: To your credit nogods, you're not the one who tried to bring up 2nd amendment rights.
    But your being a dick
    ~Wnyresident

  14. #44
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    I've got an excellent idea for those of you with an irrational fear of fire-arms. Don't own one.
    Nobody is making you purchase one.

    If you don't want to hunt, don't. If you don't want to shoot, don't. If you don't want to be around guns, don't. It really is that easy.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by FisherRd View Post
    I've got an excellent idea for those of you with an irrational fear of fire-arms. Don't own one.
    Nobody is making you purchase one.

    If you don't want to hunt, don't. If you don't want to shoot, don't. If you don't want to be around guns, don't. It really is that easy.
    Oh wait, were you using common sense here?
    Some people just have to take things away from others. It makes them feel superior. Probably stems from the toy sharing thing as a youngster.
    **free is a trademark of the current U.S. government.

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