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Thread: Let's see what happens this time - gun control

  1. #151
    Member NBuffaloResident's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WNYresident View Post
    WHich witness says "I didn't see him threaten anyone while he was in the shooters house".

    Just being in the house is a threat. Simple as that. Don't you read the paper when people are assaulted in their own homes? IF you can't say why you are standing in my living room in 5 seconds and I don't know you, your a threat.

    You do know there are evil people out there. People that will rape your wife while others watch... Or slice you up and watch you die right in front of them. Why give them any chance to do so. Now I don't mean go target practice on someone because they are walking over your lawn.. Don't pull what I say so far out of context to try to make a valueless point.
    Hm, just being in your house is justifiable for lethal force?

    http://law.onecle.com/new-york/penal....20_35.20.html

    NY State has a weak castle defense standing. You have a duty to retreat, but are allowed the use of lethal force if you are directly being threatened.

    I'm not taking what you said out of context. I'm applying it's proper context.

    Quote Originally Posted by WNYresident View Post
    But then you assaulted them. They could say they thought they saw smoke coming out of your home.. They went in your house and checked all your valuables to make sure they were safe and then the owner beat the crap out of them. THey were just being good citizens. WHy would you risk your families safety?
    Again, read NYS Penal Law on the matter. Talk to a lawyer, see what they say. They'll explain NYS's castle doctrine, and maybe in better words than I can.
    Raptor Jesus: He went extinct for your sins.

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by NBuffaloResident View Post
    Easy:

    A bludgeon weapon has no collateral damage. A gun can, and most likely will. And attacking someone in your home with a non-lethal weapon is much easier to justify in court. And safer.

    .
    Safer???? for who ?????? them,, that is really funny.

    No it is easier in court when they are dead...


    Glaser safety slugs or sub sonics solve your over penetration problem

    Your posts on this subject defy any logic I can fathom.

    I'll leave the caustic retorts for Fish today.

    PS..

    A person in possession or control of, or licensed or privileged to
    be in, a dwelling or an occupied building, who reasonably believes that
    another person is committing or attempting to commit a burglary of such
    dwelling or building, may use deadly physical force upon such other
    person when he or she reasonably believes such to be necessary to
    prevent or terminate the commission or attempted commission of such
    burglary.

    This is very clear, just don't shoot in the back.
    How many seconds do you have to determine wether or not the perp is going to fire?..I wouldn't bother asking if he has a gun.. and an intruder armed with a knife,, you have 20 feet justifyable distance to drop them.

    the old adage judged by 12 then carried by 6 holds true.
    Last edited by Save Us; March 5th, 2010 at 01:48 PM.

  3. #153
    Member NBuffaloResident's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Save Us View Post
    Safer???? for who ?????? them,, that is really funny.

    No it is easier in court when they are dead...


    Glaser safety slugs or sub sonics solve your over penetration problem

    Your posts on this subject defy any logic I can fathom.

    I'll leave the caustic retorts for Fish today.

    PS..

    A person in possession or control of, or licensed or privileged to
    be in, a dwelling or an occupied building, who reasonably believes that
    another person is committing or attempting to commit a burglary of such
    dwelling or building, may use deadly physical force upon such other
    person when he or she reasonably believes such to be necessary to
    prevent or terminate the commission or attempted commission of such
    burglary.

    This is very clear, just don't shoot in the back.
    How many seconds do you have to determine wether or not the perp is going to fire..
    My opinion none.
    Well, you know they are not going to fire at you if they don't know you're there... Which means you have to let them know you are there... And then if they turn and run, you can't fire.

    However, no such restrictions on non-deadly force (ie a baseball bat).

    As for "who" it's safer for? Whomever else might be in the house that you might accidentally hit, through ricochet, or wall penetration.

    Also:
    person when he or she reasonably believes such to be necessary to
    prevent or terminate the commission or attempted commission of such
    burglary.

    If the person is not weilding a firearm (Many burglars don't), it's not necessary to use deadly force. And you wont know that unless:

    a) You see him/her with a firearm
    b) He/she sees you are there, and points one at you

    Either way, opening fire on that person, will in turn lead them to open fire on you. You want to gamble on the fact they are using sub-sonic rounds, or Glasers that wont go through walls?
    Raptor Jesus: He went extinct for your sins.

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by NBuffaloResident View Post
    Well, you know they are not going to fire at you if they don't know you're there... Which means you have to let them know you are there... And then if they turn and run, you can't fire.

    However, no such restrictions on non-deadly force (ie a baseball bat).

    As for "who" it's safer for? Whomever else might be in the house that you might accidentally hit, through ricochet, or wall penetration.

    Also:
    person when he or she reasonably believes such to be necessary to
    prevent or terminate the commission or attempted commission of such
    burglary.

    If the person is not weilding a firearm (Many burglars don't), it's not necessary to use deadly force. And you wont know that unless:

    a) You see him/her with a firearm
    b) He/she sees you are there, and points one at you

    Either way, opening fire on that person, will in turn lead them to open fire on you. You want to gamble on the fact they are using sub-sonic rounds, or Glasers that wont go through walls?
    I guess I just am not willing to let anyone else but me decide how that situation goes down in my house with my family.

  5. #155
    Member mikenold's Avatar
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    There have been many advocates of gun control over the years since guns were created. I wonder if they had anything in common?

    **free is a trademark of the current U.S. government.

  6. #156
    Member NBuffaloResident's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikenold View Post
    There have been many advocates of gun control over the years since guns were created. I wonder if they had anything in common?

    You do know the Nazis came to power courtesy of relaxed gun control in Germany, right?
    Raptor Jesus: He went extinct for your sins.

  7. #157
    Member mikenold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NBuffaloResident View Post
    You do know the Nazis came to power courtesy of relaxed gun control in Germany, right?
    You do know that Hitler took the all guns away from the Jews before he started shipping then to concentration camps and their deaths, right?
    **free is a trademark of the current U.S. government.

  8. #158
    Member NBuffaloResident's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikenold View Post
    You do know that Hitler took the all guns away from the Jews before he started shipping then to concentration camps and their deaths, right?
    You know the only reason there was a coup by the Nazi party was due to them being heavily armed, right?
    Raptor Jesus: He went extinct for your sins.

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by NBuffaloResident View Post
    Again, let me type even more slowly so you can understand why you "can not" get the jump on a burglar with a gun:
    Fast or slow, it matters not because the statement is completely false and you're so vested in sticking by it you're willing to play the fool to defend it.
    If you use deadly force on an intruder who is not directly threatening you, enjoy your jail time.
    Unfortunately for you, the question you asked was basically how do you stop a burglar. I told you how, and then the goalposts got moved as usual. It's all in writing, so you're not fooling anyone.
    If you use non-deadly force (A bludgeon instrument), on an intruder, you will most likely walk.
    You'll most likely walk either way, gun or bat.
    It's not that it's physically impossible to get the drop on a person when you have a gun. It's just really, really, not advised. Unless you enjoy Bubba's company.
    You can claim it's not advisable all you want, but that doesn't make it true. Good luck swinging your 9 iron in a hallway, btw.
    See the bolded part. It's called "Unwarranted Lethal Force". A jury will not look to kindly on you using lethal force on an intruder who is not directly threatening you.
    Unwarranted force of any kind isn't advisable. The "unwarranted" part is an example of you moving goalposts because your original premise rightfully got laughed out of the room.
    A bludgeon tool is not considered lethal force (99% of the time). However, use of a gun is (100% of the time).
    Which has nothing to do with the questions you asked or the points you're trying to make.

  10. #160
    Member Chant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NBuffaloResident View Post
    I own a gun. I'm not stupid and think I can take somebody who has the drop on me.

    Thank you for once again proving my point about your person commitment to your own survivial.

    I am also aware that when I point a gun at something, I am intending on killing my target. Not to scare them.

    How Dirty Harry of you.

    Man, you should join spec ops. We need an army of super ninjas like you. Just think, you could show them spec ops how to do things. It would be awesome! You and your buddies should all join as instructors.

    Actually... after my classmates demostration, his instructors did have him start teaching some things to his class.



    Go ahead. Call me what you like. You're the one who has already (more or less) claimed you are a super ninja, capable of stopping bullets in mid-air, and able to overtake any opponent that faces you.

    Show me where I made those claims? Opps, forgot - facts are pulled out of thin air as needed with you. I simply pointed out that your "draw gun" senario is, and has been, not necessary a "no win" situation. Yes - we get it, that it is for you personally.

    Me, I know my limits.

    First smart thing I think you've said the entire thread.


    Burglar wants my wallet and has a gun pointed at me? Well, he can have my wallet. It's easy to cancel my credit cards.

    Second smart thing.

    Burglar in my house, well, I'm not going to be grabbing my gun, try to load it, and then, in a half-sleeping state, attempt to aim and keep a perp under control.

    Third smart thing... only because with your attitute I believe you would be a danger to innocent bystanders in this case.

    I'll just creep on him, and wail on him with either my Louisville Slugger or my machete I keep in secure place. I'll either crush a skull, or sever a neck.

    Now this is laughable!!! So who's attempting to be a ninja now?
    BTW - a baseball ball bat is one of the worse defensive weapons there is.

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by NBuffaloResident View Post
    You know the only reason there was a coup by the Nazi party was due to them being heavily armed, right?
    You so grossly overstated your case that it's beyond absurd.

    Elections, the economy, nationalism, etc played no part in the Nazi's rising to power. It was simply that they were heavily armed...

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by NBuffaloResident View Post
    Let me type slowly:

    If you use deadly force on an intruder who is not directly threatening you, enjoy your jail time.

    You are aware that the Police consider anyone within 21 feet of them as a threat, right? How many spaces in the common home are more than 21 feet wide?

    If you use non-deadly force (A bludgeon instrument), on an intruder, you will most likely walk.

    LOL! On what planet do you live where an impact weapon is not considered a deadly weapon? I teach stick-fighting and Lamb Method Police Baton - you have absolutely no clue as to what you are talking about.

    It's not that it's physically impossible to get the drop on a person when you have a gun. It's just really, really, not advised. Unless you enjoy Bubba's company.

    This statement of course makes no sense... but that's not unusual.



    Sure, people get shot all the time and don't die. However, if you expect the person you are shooting to not die, you are an idiot.

    How come then in your scenarios - the homeowner always gets shot once and its over for them then?????

    When you point a gun at a person, expect to kill that person. Otherwise, you're lying to yourself.

    Sure, there's a survival chance. However, you shouldn't count on it. And, in a court, use of a gun is always considered "Deadly force" for good reason.



    When has my story changed? Please, point it out.
    Think Fishy got you cold on that account.

  13. #163
    Member mikenold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NBuffaloResident View Post
    You know the only reason there was a coup by the Nazi party was due to them being heavily armed, right?
    You really don't have a clue, do you?
    **free is a trademark of the current U.S. government.

  14. #164
    Member Chant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NBuffaloResident View Post
    Easy:

    A bludgeon weapon has no collateral damage. A gun can, and most likely will. And attacking someone in your home with a non-lethal weapon is much easier to justify in court. And safer.

    Clueless! No collateral damage??? Try swinging your baseball bat around in your house at a moving target and get back to us on that one. Your "attacking" someone in your home is going to get into more trouble in court, than your "defending" yourself against someone in your home will. And choosing an impact or your so-called "non-lethal" weapon over a firearm for defense against an home invader for most people is a truly bad idea. Such a weapon requires the user to come into close contact with the intruder to use, which is never desirable. Please don't give out anymore self-defense advice, because bluntly... you suck at it.



    And if you assume you are going to shoot somebody, and not kill them, you sir, are an idiot.

    Has anyone here ever stated that they planned on shooting an attacker with the purpose of wounding them??? I don't remember reading that in anyone's posts but NBR's.

    If a burglar breaks into your home (At night), he either knows a) You are asleep or b) Not home. Either way, upon you discovering he is there, you are either a) Awaking from a dead sleep or b) Surprised to encounter someone in your home.

    Here's that insistance that the homeowner is at the disadvantage again - surprise, surprise.

    Either way, the burglar most likely has the drop on you. And, if he doesn't, and is not directly threatening you, and you shoot him, you will have a difficult time justifying that to a jury. Even cops are not allowed deadly force without first a warning.

    You watch too much TV... I don't believe that's true. This goes back to the "21-foot Rule" Let's see if you'll look it up and figure out why. Unless some cop on the board wants to explain it to you



    No, because I would intend on keeping the situation at the point where the perp is unaware of me.

    LOL! Yeah..... wannabe ninja. When was the last time you attempted to creep up on somebody in a quiet room? Give it a try sometime and see how easy it is. Then triple the difficultly on that experiment on trying to sneak up on someone who is already on edge because they are in a place they have no right to be. You live in a real fantasy world

    And, doing that with a gun is nigh impossible. And if you did, and just shot him, you would most likely end up in jail, or facing a lawsuit.
    Yeah... them guns are so noisy... talking all the time when you want them to be quiet. Farting, making all sorts of sounds when you try to sneak up on a burglar. Giving you away while you practice your stealth skills....

    Geez... that last statement makes no sense what so ever.

  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chant View Post
    Yeah... them guns are so noisy... talking all the time when you want them to be quiet. Farting, making all sorts of sounds when you try to sneak up on a burglar. Giving you away while you practice your stealth skills....

    Geez... that last statement makes no sense what so ever.

    This thread should be shot to put it out of its misery....now it's just pathetic, beating a dead horse.

    Then again why should I try to interfere with anyone on the MB who clearly wants a Darwin award?

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