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Thread: Let's see what happens this time - gun control

  1. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by NBuffaloResident View Post
    I own a gun. I'm not stupid and think I can take somebody who has the drop on me.

    I am also aware that when I point a gun at something, I am intending on killing my target. Not to scare them.

    Man, you should join spec ops. We need an army of super ninjas like you. Just think, you could show them spec ops how to do things. It would be awesome! You and your buddies should all join as instructors.



    Go ahead. Call me what you like. You're the one who has already (more or less) claimed you are a super ninja, capable of stopping bullets in mid-air, and able to overtake any opponent that faces you.

    Me, I know my limits. Burglar wants my wallet and has a gun pointed at me? Well, he can have my wallet. It's easy to cancel my credit cards.

    Burglar in my house, well, I'm not going to be grabbing my gun, try to load it, and then, in a half-sleeping state, attempt to aim and keep a perp under control.

    I'll just creep on him, and wail on him with either my Louisville Slugger or my machete I keep in secure place. I'll either crush a skull, or sever a neck.
    choosing a bat or machete over a 9 mm in a easily accessible pistol safe makes absolutely no sense to me. Please help me understand that logic.

    I'm sorry but if there are a variety of weapons on the table and I am unsure of someones intent possibly to kill me..... rock, bat, knife, handgun....

    can't find any logic where a gun is trumped,, unless you like close calls...

  2. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Save Us View Post
    choosing a bat or machete over a 9 mm in a easily accessible pistol safe makes absolutely no sense to me. Please help me understand that logic.

    I'm sorry but if there are a variety of weapons on the table and I am unsure of someones intent possibly to kill me..... rock, bat, knife, handgun....

    can't find any logic where a gun is trumped,, unless you like close calls...
    Those people that are anti-gun will say anything to prove their point. Even if it makes no sense. Even if it just plain isn't true.
    **free is a trademark of the current U.S. government.

  3. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by NBuffaloResident View Post
    Hey, I'm not the one suggesting a person can out-draw a person who has on gun trained on them... And I'm not suggesting that I can wake up from a deep sleep and be totally ready for a burglar in the house ready to shoot me already...

    I'm saying you guys are like super ninjas who can take a person who has the initiative on you, and I find it laughable you consider a person pointing a gun at you a "made-up scenario".

    I also find it pretty funny that you guys think a gun's purpose is any other purpose than to kill/maim your target.


    I hate to have to ask this again, but why is the burglar some skilled operator? Why do you constantly change the parameters of the situation?
    Basically every conversation I've seen you have here goes like this:
    You make some really stupid comment thinking you have a point. Somebody comes by and points it out. Then you move the goalposts, add a non sequitur, change parameters, etc Rinse repeat.

    Your question was "How do you stop a burglar without killing him?". The question was answered. Then magically you change it so you're now already in his crosshairs and he's woken you from a dead sleep.
    Are you aware that you get your head handed to you and then immediately respond as if the question you posed was different than the one answered?

  4. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Save Us View Post

    can't find any logic where a gun is trumped,, unless you like close calls...
    Right. He's choosing a 9 iron over a pistol because he can outdraw a pistol with his 9 iron...

  5. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by FisherRd View Post
    Right. He's choosing a 9 iron over a pistol because he can outdraw a pistol with his 9 iron...
    Must like litigation and prolonged jury trials. I sure as hell don't.

  6. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by FisherRd View Post
    I hate to have to ask this again, but why is the burglar some skilled operator? Why do you constantly change the parameters of the situation?
    Basically every conversation I've seen you have here goes like this:
    You make some really stupid comment thinking you have a point. Somebody comes by and points it out. Then you move the goalposts, add a non sequitur, change parameters, etc Rinse repeat.

    Your question was "How do you stop a burglar without killing him?". The question was answered. Then magically you change it so you're now already in his crosshairs and he's woken you from a dead sleep.
    Are you aware that you get your head handed to you and then immediately respond as if the question you posed was different than the one answered?
    This is a classical liberal tactic. Be careful, next you will be called derogatory names or worse, you will be shown to be not credible.
    **free is a trademark of the current U.S. government.

  7. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikenold View Post
    This is a classical liberal tactic. Be careful, next you will be called derogatory names or worse, you will be shown to be not credible.
    I know, but most of the names I'm called fit, and this is the internet, nobody is credible!

    Liberal/Conservative...same styles, different names.

  8. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Save Us View Post
    choosing a bat or machete over a 9 mm in a easily accessible pistol safe makes absolutely no sense to me. Please help me understand that logic.

    I'm sorry but if there are a variety of weapons on the table and I am unsure of someones intent possibly to kill me..... rock, bat, knife, handgun....

    can't find any logic where a gun is trumped,, unless you like close calls...
    Easy:

    A bludgeon weapon has no collateral damage. A gun can, and most likely will. And attacking someone in your home with a non-lethal weapon is much easier to justify in court. And safer.

    Quote Originally Posted by FisherRd View Post
    I hate to have to ask this again, but why is the burglar some skilled operator? Why do you constantly change the parameters of the situation?
    Basically every conversation I've seen you have here goes like this:
    You make some really stupid comment thinking you have a point. Somebody comes by and points it out. Then you move the goalposts, add a non sequitur, change parameters, etc Rinse repeat.

    Your question was "How do you stop a burglar without killing him?". The question was answered. Then magically you change it so you're now already in his crosshairs and he's woken you from a dead sleep.
    Are you aware that you get your head handed to you and then immediately respond as if the question you posed was different than the one answered?
    And if you assume you are going to shoot somebody, and not kill them, you sir, are an idiot.

    If a burglar breaks into your home (At night), he either knows a) You are asleep or b) Not home. Either way, upon you discovering he is there, you are either a) Awaking from a dead sleep or b) Surprised to encounter someone in your home.

    Either way, the burglar most likely has the drop on you. And, if he doesn't, and is not directly threatening you, and you shoot him, you will have a difficult time justifying that to a jury. Even cops are not allowed deadly force without first a warning.

    Quote Originally Posted by FisherRd View Post
    Right. He's choosing a 9 iron over a pistol because he can outdraw a pistol with his 9 iron...
    No, because I would intend on keeping the situation at the point where the perp is unaware of me.

    And, doing that with a gun is nigh impossible. And if you did, and just shot him, you would most likely end up in jail, or facing a lawsuit.
    Raptor Jesus: He went extinct for your sins.

  9. #144
    Member mikenold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NBuffaloResident View Post
    Easy:

    A bludgeon weapon has no collateral damage. A gun can, and most likely will. And attacking someone in your home with a non-lethal weapon is much easier to justify in court. And safer.
    Dead burglars don't contradict your story!

    Quote Originally Posted by NBuffaloResident View Post
    If a burglar breaks into your home (At night), he either knows a) You are asleep or b) Not home. Either way, upon you discovering he is there, you are either a) Awaking from a dead sleep or b) Surprised to encounter someone in your home.
    You give felons much, too much intellectual credit. I don't believe that an intelligent person chooses to break in to peoples homes as a method of making a living. Besides, the perp does not know the layout of the home. Also, a dog is a very good warning device that should give one plenty of time to retrieve the deterrent of choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by NBuffaloResident View Post
    Either way, the burglar most likely has the drop on you. And, if he doesn't, and is not directly threatening you, and you shoot him, you will have a difficult time justifying that to a jury. Even cops are not allowed deadly force without first a warning.
    As stated above the criminal should never have the drop on you. A simple cocking of the magazine and a shout of "Get out, I have a gun and I know how to use it" is quite enough of a warning. If the thief persists then deadly force is warranted.

    Quote Originally Posted by NBuffaloResident View Post
    No, because I would intend on keeping the situation at the point where the perp is unaware of me.
    This could be a deadly mistake. Better to make yourself know and the thief turn and run, than surprise a knucklehead with a gun.
    **free is a trademark of the current U.S. government.

  10. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by NBuffaloResident View Post
    Easy:

    A bludgeon weapon has no collateral damage. A gun can, and most likely will. And attacking someone in your home with a non-lethal weapon is much easier to justify in court. And safer.



    And if you assume you are going to shoot somebody, and not kill them, you sir, are an idiot.

    If a burglar breaks into your home (At night), he either knows a) You are asleep or b) Not home. Either way, upon you discovering he is there, you are either a) Awaking from a dead sleep or b) Surprised to encounter someone in your home.

    Either way, the burglar most likely has the drop on you. And, if he doesn't, and is not directly threatening you, and you shoot him, you will have a difficult time justifying that to a jury. Even cops are not allowed deadly force without first a warning.



    No, because I would intend on keeping the situation at the point where the perp is unaware of me.

    And, doing that with a gun is nigh impossible. And if you did, and just shot him, you would most likely end up in jail, or facing a lawsuit.


    I can't believe you actually hit "submit" on the vast majority of your crap. You can't even keep your parameters straight in the same post.
    Why are the rules different for you? Everyone else is faced with a Chuck Norris burglar, but when it's you we're talking about somehow you're getting the drop on a burglar with a 9 iron, even though you just tried to explain to me how getting the drop on a burglar isn't possible, even with a gun. Do you see this obvious hypocrisy, and how it can lead to you being easily dismissed as a blow-hard?

    I also like you you provided me with an argument again. People get shot in Buffalo daily. That would be 365 murders a year minimum. How many do we average? What! Less than that? How is that possible? NBR just told me that when you shoot somebody they die, and if you don't believe it you must be an idiot!

    You're just not worth correcting anymore. I don't even know that you're bright enough to understand what is being pointed out to you. If you were capable of keeping your stories straight and admitting when your points were stupid things may be different.

  11. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by FisherRd View Post
    I can't believe you actually hit "submit" on the vast majority of your crap. You can't even keep your parameters straight in the same post.
    Why are the rules different for you? Everyone else is faced with a Chuck Norris burglar, but when it's you we're talking about somehow you're getting the drop on a burglar with a 9 iron, even though you just tried to explain to me how getting the drop on a burglar with a gun isn't possible.
    Let me type slowly:

    If you use deadly force on an intruder who is not directly threatening you, enjoy your jail time.

    If you use non-deadly force (A bludgeon instrument), on an intruder, you will most likely walk.

    It's not that it's physically impossible to get the drop on a person when you have a gun. It's just really, really, not advised. Unless you enjoy Bubba's company.

    I also like you you provided me with an argument again. People get shot in Buffalo daily. That would be 365 murders a year minimum. How many do we average? What! Less than that? How is that possible? NBR just told me that when you shoot somebody they die, and if you don't believe it you must be an idiot!
    Sure, people get shot all the time and don't die. However, if you expect the person you are shooting to not die, you are an idiot.

    When you point a gun at a person, expect to kill that person. Otherwise, you're lying to yourself.

    Sure, there's a survival chance. However, you shouldn't count on it. And, in a court, use of a gun is always considered "Deadly force" for good reason.

    You're just not worth correcting anymore. I don't even know that you're bright enough to understand what is being pointed out to you. If you were capable of keeping your stories straight and admitting when your points were stupid things may be different.
    When has my story changed? Please, point it out.
    Raptor Jesus: He went extinct for your sins.

  12. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by NBuffaloResident View Post
    When has my story changed? Please, point it out.
    It's been pointed out throughout this thread on more than one occasion, including the post of mine you just quoted. This is exactly what I'm talking about.

    You somehow get the jump on a burglar with your 9 iron, even though none of us with a weapon are able to get the jump on the burglar with our weapons. In your scenario for us, we're already in the burglars crosshairs, in your scenario for you and your 9 iron you get the jump on the guy...

    Our scenarios that you paint are black and white, and we're always at a disadvantage. In your scenarios you paint for yourself, everything is subjective and fluid.

    The fact you're unaware of this after having it pointed out by 3 or 4 posters doesn't surprise me.

  13. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by FisherRd View Post
    It's been pointed out throughout this thread on more than one occasion, including the post of mine you just quoted. This is exactly what I'm talking about.

    You somehow get the jump on a burglar with your 9 iron, even though none of us with a weapon are able to get the jump on the burglar with our weapons. In your scenario for us, we're already in the burglars crosshairs, in your scenario for you and your 9 iron you get the jump on the guy...

    Our scenarios that you paint are black and white, and we're always at a disadvantage. In your scenarios you paint for yourself, everything is subjective and fluid.

    The fact you're unaware of this after having it pointed out by 3 or 4 posters doesn't surprise me.
    Again, let me type even more slowly so you can understand why you "can not" get the jump on a burglar with a gun:

    If you use deadly force on an intruder who is not directly threatening you, enjoy your jail time.

    If you use non-deadly force (A bludgeon instrument), on an intruder, you will most likely walk.

    It's not that it's physically impossible to get the drop on a person when you have a gun. It's just really, really, not advised. Unless you enjoy Bubba's company.

    See the bolded part. It's called "Unwarranted Lethal Force". A jury will not look to kindly on you using lethal force on an intruder who is not directly threatening you.

    A bludgeon tool is not considered lethal force (99% of the time). However, use of a gun is (100% of the time).
    Raptor Jesus: He went extinct for your sins.

  14. #149
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    If you use deadly force on an intruder who is not directly threatening you, enjoy your jail time.
    WHich witness says "I didn't see him threaten anyone while he was in the shooters house".

    Just being in the house is a threat. Simple as that. Don't you read the paper when people are assaulted in their own homes? IF you can't say why you are standing in my living room in 5 seconds and I don't know you, your a threat.

    You do know there are evil people out there. People that will rape your wife while others watch... Or slice you up and watch you die right in front of them. Why give them any chance to do so. Now I don't mean go target practice on someone because they are walking over your lawn.. Don't pull what I say so far out of context to try to make a valueless point.

  15. #150
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    If you use non-deadly force (A bludgeon instrument), on an intruder, you will most likely walk.
    But then you assaulted them. They could say they thought they saw smoke coming out of your home.. They went in your house and checked all your valuables to make sure they were safe and then the owner beat the crap out of them. THey were just being good citizens. WHy would you risk your families safety?

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