A train station Will Rogers would love

[Jeff]

3 lines. Lakeshore, Maple and Empire. Arrive and Depart.

Here is where the guy you quoted was wrong. Depew is even worse of a location than the CT. Depew is for people who use the train like they would use the airport. Tiny amount of people.

Just for a moment think of yourself as a Toronto Maple Leafs fan or a Buffalo Bills fan from Pittsford NY. Add to this imagine the Bills have built a stadium downtown.

Now go ahead and plan a trip from Toronto or Pittsford via train for a Saturday night hockey game or a Sunday Bills game. Plan the logistics if the station is in Depew and plan it if the station is downtown. Consider how you're going to get to your hotel and to the game.

If you work thought this it's clear as to where the station needs to go. They are right. Rail travel, at least for travel to compete with air, is not going to expand in the future. High Speed Rail is not going to happen in NY. Not after watching what happened in CA. But regional rail travel is something that can and does work. It's HUGE in Southern California. The amount of people in LA that go to San Diego for the weekend and the amount of people in San Diego that go to LA...all via the Surfliner...is huge.


Should also note that Brown is never someone who has taken a stand on his own before. He has always played it safe. The only reason he would go against Higgins and Grassroots on the east side is because he knows something. He knows the plans of Pegula.

If you want a model to compare to this, just look at Gillette Stadium . Everyone takes the train to Gillette from the all over the region for Patriots games and events.

http://www.mbta.com/riding_the_t/trains_to_gillette/

I don't understand why this is such a difficult concepts for WNYers...

[jennifer7]

If you want a model to compare to this, just look at Gillette Stadium . Everyone takes the train to Gillette from the all over the region for Patriots games and events.

http://www.mbta.com/riding_the_t/trains_to_gillette/

I don't understand why this is such a difficult concepts for WNYers...

The Metro Boston area has about 5 Million people in about a 50 square mile area, if you expand it around the Metro Boston area their are 8 Million people in a 80 square mile area

Re: Southern California (San Diego & Los Angeles) population is 23 Million

[Jeff]

If you want a model to compare to this, just look at Gillette Stadium . Everyone takes the train to Gillette from the all over the region for Patriots games and events.

http://www.mbta.com/riding_the_t/trains_to_gillette/

I don't understand why this is such a difficult concepts for WNYers...

The Metro Boston area has about 5 Million people in about a 50 square mile area, if you expand it around the Metro Boston area their are 8 Million people in a 80 square mile area

Re: Southern California (San Diego & Los Angeles) population is 23 Million

WNY including Rochester and Niagara about 3 million people all within a potential 30 min train ride from downtown if planned correctly.

If anyone with vision noticed that the 12 million people in southern Ontario were only were only 45 mins away via a correctly planned train route, perhaps that could actually be tapped as well.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

If you want a model to compare to this, just look at Gillette Stadium . Everyone takes the train to Gillette from the all over the region for Patriots games and events.

http://www.mbta.com/riding_the_t/trains_to_gillette/

I don't understand why this is such a difficult concepts for WNYers...

Because most in Buffalo live in a bubble.

They also run a very popular Amtrak train in NC for Panther games. Brings people in from Raleigh and all points in-between. It's a special service scheduled just for the game. I would anticipate a similar service being run once the downtown stadium is built.

From what I have been told a lot of people actually take the Saturday train in and then the Sunday out. 6:45am is an early wakeup call. The stadium in Charlotte is uptown and the city has a pretty awesome vibe the night before and the day of games.

[jennifer7]

The Metro Boston area has about 5 Million people in about a 50 square mile area, if you expand it around the Metro Boston area their are 8 Million people in a 80 square mile area

Re: Southern California (San Diego & Los Angeles) population is 23 Million

WNY including Rochester and Niagara about 3 million people all within a potential 30 min train ride from downtown if planned correctly.

If anyone with vision noticed that the 12 million people in southern Ontario were only were only 45 mins away via a correctly planned train route, perhaps that could actually be tapped as well.[/QUOTE]

The NFL is Relocating a NFL Team to London within 5 Years to fill London's Brand New NFL Stadium that just broke ground, The NFL sees $$$$$$$$
https://youtu.be/yge4k7s4QIQ
https://youtu.be/WKjQF6xorOw
https://youtu.be/aB5YZDWE9Gc
Canadiens don't have a big interest in NFL Football thats why the NFL is not puting a team in Toronto and Canada has their own Footballl League the CFL

[Jeff]

WNY including Rochester and Niagara about 3 million people all within a potential 30 min train ride from downtown if planned correctly.

If anyone with vision noticed that the 12 million people in southern Ontario were only were only 45 mins away via a correctly planned train route, perhaps that could actually be tapped as well.

The NFL is Relocating a NFL Team to London within 5 Years to fill London's Brand New NFL Stadium that just broke ground https://youtu.be/WKjQF6xorOw
https://youtu.be/aB5YZDWE9Gc
Canadiens don't have a big interest in NFL Football thats why the NFL is not puting a team in Toronto and Canada has their own Footballl League the CFL[/QUOTE]

Please learn how to use the quote feature.

We are not just talking about football. I can tell you are originally from WNY because you think just as shallow as someone from here.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

The NFL is Relocating a NFL Team to London within 5 Years

They are and it's pretty much a lock to be Jacksonville.

The owner, Shahid Khan, is based out of London. He also owns a professional soccer team, Fulham F.C., in London. Oh...and it was just announced that Jacksonville is planning to build a new practice field.....in wait for it....London.

So what is more likely. Pegula selling the Sabres or moving them, in addition to, his hotel and hockey complex...in order to move his NFL team to London or a London based owner of a NFL team who also owns a London based professional soccer team moving his Florida based team to London?

Canadiens don't have a big interest in NFL Football thats why the NFL is not putting a team in Toronto and Canada has their own Football League the CFL

Too bad 40% of season ticket holders come from Southern Ontario or Rochester. Up from less than 5% in the mid-90s.


You're a Dipsh*t.

[jennifer7]

They are and it's pretty much a lock to be Jacksonville.

The owner, Shahid Khan, is based out of London. He also owns a professional soccer team, Fulham F.C., in London. Oh...and it was just announced that Jacksonville is planning to build a new practice field.....in wait for it....London.

So what is more likely. Pegula selling the Sabres or moving them, in addition to, his hotel and hockey complex...in order to move his NFL team to London or a London based owner of a NFL team who also owns a London based professional soccer team moving his Florida based team to London?



Too bad 40% of season ticket holders come from Southern Ontario or Rochester. Up from less than 5% in the mid-90s.


You're a Dipsh*t.

Why did St. Louis, San Diego, & Oakland all just lose their NFL teams? Because of their old & outdated Stadiums and The taxpayers would not pay for it & build them new Stadiums, Who has the oldest outdated & worst stadium in the league ? Even if They build a new stadium in Buffalo, How do you sell all of the 100's & 100's of corporate luxury suites that cost $$$$$$ per year for 8 games a year and the ticket prices will double or triple or more that go's with a new NFL Stadiums, Also all of the revenue that comes in from the corporate luxury boxes gets split between all of the owners. Maybe all of the NFL's owners will feel sorry for Buffalo and forget that having a team in Buffalo is costing them alot of money or maybe the taxpayers will pay for the new Stadium and then provide a yearly subsidy to all of the NFL owners to make up for the 100's of millions of revenue lossed every year with not having enough coperate suites. Ralph Wilson's exact quote "I can build a brand new stadium right now, but we can't sell all of the corporate suites that goes with a new NFL Stadium, because we all know it, Buffalo's poor" and that was 10+ years ago and Buffalo is alot poorer now & WNY has lost alot more business's & population since then

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

Why did St. Louis, San Diego, & Oakland all just lose their NFL teams? Because of their old & outdated Stadiums and The taxpayers would not pay for it & build them new Stadiums

Again, idiot, you're wrong.

St. Louis was willing and ready to pay for a stadium but Kroenke wanted LA. For obvious reasons.

As for San Diego and Oakland, you are correct that it was in part taxpayers not wanting to pay for new stadiums. But a huge driving force behind that was the willingness and ability for both Spanos and Davis to contribute a signifiant amount of money towards the project. Should also be noted that all 3 owners were not 'liked' by the fans and San Diego straight up hated Spanos.

The difference between Pegula and Davis/Spanos is Pegula is worth $4 billion and has billions that are liquid or easily accessed whereas most of the wealth for Spanos and all of the wealth for Davis is in the value of the team. They would have had to sell in order to build. The point here is even if they wanted to contribute money towards a stadium they did not have it.

Who has the oldest outdated & worst stadium in the league?

Right now...Oakland. After them and after Oakland moves Buffalo.

Even if They build a new stadium in Buffalo, How do you sell all of the 100's & 100's of corporate luxury suites that cost $$$$$$ per year

The number of boxes above what exist at the current stadium would be small. They would be sold due to expanding the reach of potential buyers by making it more attractive regional companies. Right now there are not accommodations in OP like there are DT. When the stadium is built you could easily see a CEO getting a box and then staying at the Curtis downtown for the weekend. 8-12 times a year.

The number of club seats will increase but there will not be an issue selling them. The weather issue will be removed with a dome, then you add in the same regional draw and top it off by removing the lower end / trashy fans that go to Bills games now because of affordability. There is plenty of money in the region for these seats.



I'll say this again. You're a f*cking moron. It's not even fun calling you out anymore. You really need to stick to basic topics. You have the depth of a puddle.

[jennifer7]

Why did St. Louis, San Diego, & Oakland all just lose their NFL teams? Because of their old & outdated Stadiums and The taxpayers would not pay for it & build them new Stadiums, Who has the oldest outdated & worst stadium in the league ? Even if They build a new stadium in Buffalo, How do you sell all of the 100's & 100's of corporate luxury suites that cost $$$$$$ per year for 8 games a year and the ticket prices will double or triple or more that go's with a new NFL Stadiums, Also all of the revenue that comes in from the corporate luxury boxes gets split between all of the owners. Maybe all of the NFL's owners will feel sorry for Buffalo and forget that having a team in Buffalo is costing them alot of money or maybe the taxpayers will pay for the new Stadium and then provide a yearly subsidy to all of the NFL owners to make up for the 100's of millions of revenue lossed every year with not having enough coperate suites. Ralph Wilson's exact quote "I can build a brand new stadium right now, but we can't sell all of the corporate suites that goes with a new NFL Stadium, because we all know it, Buffalo's poor" and that was 10+ years ago and Buffalo is alot poorer now & WNY has lost alot more business's & population since then

Speaking of Jacksonville FL, They just announced that their doing a renovation to their Stadium and adding 5,000 additional club level seats & corporate suites
The current Jacksonville Metro area population is over 1.6 Million and is growing, Also has the 7th fastest growing county population increase in the country and gained over 13,000 new residents from 2015 to 2016

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

Speaking of Jacksonville FL, They just announced that their doing a renovation to their Stadium and adding 5,000 additional club level seats & corporate suites
The current Jacksonville Metro area population is over 1.6 Million and is growing, Also has the 7th fastest growing county population increase in the country and gained over 13,000 new residents from 2015 to 2016

And your point *******?

Both Buffalo and Jacksonville have leases with the respective stadiums. Both stadiums have undergone renovations. Yet somehow you seem to suggest that a lease+renovations doesn't mean anything in Buffalo but a lease+renovations means something in Jacksonville. You're an idiot.

Population only helps if it means getting asses in the seats. For the last 10 years Buffalo has beaten Jacksonville in every attendance and season ticket metric. Moron.

[grump]

To rely on a downtown stadium to justify a downtown train station is foolish. That's 8 days a year for close to $100 million on top of the $1 billion for a new stadium. And please spare us all the argument that people from Rochester and Toronto are going to take the train here to enjoy all our wonderful amenities. They could all be driving here tomorrow for that if they wanted to see them that badly. It's senseless to compare a decaying area like upstate New York to flourishing areas like North Carolina and Southern California. They have the amenities because they have the jobs to bring in population, not the other way around.

[jennifer7]

And your point *******?

Both Buffalo and Jacksonville have leases with the respective stadiums. Both stadiums have undergone renovations. Yet somehow you seem to suggest that a lease+renovations doesn't mean anything in Buffalo but a lease+renovations means something in Jacksonville. You're an idiot.

Population only helps if it means getting asses in the seats. For the last 10 years Buffalo has beaten Jacksonville in every attendance and season ticket metric. Moron.

Several sports radio talk shows have remotes set up by the Biltmore Resorts, The topic about the NFL relocating a team to London within 5 years is a hot topic.
They were discussing what teams might be relocated to London and when and what it would cost to move a team to London, It was mentioned several times that WNY is economically depressed and in the Bills Stadium Lease agreement, Their is a one-time out clause in 2019, for the mere payment of $28.4 Million, or if the NFL waits till 2022, when the lease expires, The NFL could relocate the Bills to London with no penalty. Jacksonville's Stadium Lease is good till 2030 and would cost 150+ Million to break, Intresting that the NFL is saying that they want to relocate a team to London within 5 years and the Bills Stadium lease expires in 5 years

[HipKat]

I have never seen so much abuse of the quote function in one thread, ever.

[Jeff]

To rely on a downtown stadium to justify a downtown train station is foolish. That's 8 days a year for close to $100 million on top of the $1 billion for a new stadium. And please spare us all the argument that people from Rochester and Toronto are going to take the train here to enjoy all our wonderful amenities. They could all be driving here tomorrow for that if they wanted to see them that badly. It's senseless to compare a decaying area like upstate New York to flourishing areas like North Carolina and Southern California. They have the amenities because they have the jobs to bring in population, not the other way around.

Not sure if you have had a chance to patronize some of the wonderful breweries, distilleries, and restaurants in the cities. Rochester has some as well.

I would love to take a 30 - 40 min train ride to Rochester, hit some breweries, catch an amerks game and catch a 30 - 40 min train back home, without having to worry about driving. If you think people would not do this you're crazy. I would be doing it every other weekend.