Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 20

Thread: Why would this be an issue - Solar Farms

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Buffalo, New York, United States
    Posts
    64,948

    Why would this be an issue - Solar Farms

    Lancaster prepares for moratorium on solar farms


    Two public hearings -- targeting solar energy farms and flag lots -- were approved by Lancaster lawmakers Tuesday night.
    A six-month moratorium on solar farm development was proposed by Councilmember John Abraham Jr. to review zoning regulations and determine revisions and amendments to the town zoning code.
    "We're not saying that no solar can be done," Council member Matthew J. Walter said. "It's just about the farms."
    http://buffalonews.com/2017/02/22/la...ime=1487767015



    Why would this make any difference. For the most part most town boards allow developers to use cheap farmland for houses or strip malls.

  2. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    4,643
    WNY, one of the issues has to do with responsibility for removal costs when the project ultimately fails. This has always been one the problems with cell towers...what happens to the tower if/when it's abandoned? Often a removal bond is required but the tower owners & cell companies are notorious for letting the bonds lapse with no notice to the land owner or host community.

  3. #3
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Buffalo, New York, United States
    Posts
    64,948
    Same could be said with vacant buildings that sit for years. I think removed the panels would be much easier than a cell tower or empty strip mall.

  4. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    4,643
    Quote Originally Posted by WNYresident View Post
    Same could be said with vacant buildings that sit for years. I think removed the panels would be much easier than a cell tower or empty strip mall.
    An empty building can be repurposed without necessarily having to clear the whole lot. Until you clear an abandoned solar panel farm all its good for is growing weeds.

  5. #5
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Buffalo, New York, United States
    Posts
    64,948
    I disagree with you on that.

    Depending how the solar panels were installed the pillars could probably be pulled out with a large backhoe. Any lot is good for growing weeds so I don't see how a vacant solar panel lot is any different. How many solar panel lots have been abandoned in Erie County this year?

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    4,643
    How many have been abandoned this year? Probably none because the sun barely shines enough here to make one worth building. But there is the comically stupid one on Maple Road at UB which is overgrown with weeds in the summer to such an extent that it's limited usefulness as a generator of power is certainly compromised. And thank you for pointing out the work required to reclaim a lot upon which a solar farm is built. An abandoned building can be repurposed without tearing it out with a backhoe.

  7. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    10,873
    Money - they fought and stalled the cell tower issues for the same reason - Control.

    While they ran the temporary moratorium for Cell Towers - They created rules/laws where the Town controlled tower locations. They made it so they could only be located on Town Controlled sites. The only exceptions was for one of their favorite developer who got his permits approved.

    Solar panels have no removal issues - they are easily assembled and disassembled. They solar farms built lately haven't failed any where - try a site a location where they have been abandoned - that doesn't happen.

    Its all about the Town getting paid first and control.
    #Dems play musical chairs + patronage and nepotism = entitlement !

  8. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    4,643
    Actually, 4248, the town can try to force cell towers onto town property but they'll be sol if the propogation studies show that the sites won't fill service gaps. Just so you know, solar panels don't remove themselves. Somebody actually has to remove them which means somebody has to pay to remove them.

  9. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    10,873
    Your chasing a straw man with that nonissue. I just stated what the Town leaders did in the past. They blocked private residents from having the financial opportunity of having cell towers.

    As you know - because you couldn't find an example of an abandoned solar farm - the abandonment issues is a farce.

    What they are most likely doing is building money(tax) making codes and permits. They will try to find ways to make money off any proposed solar farms and solar locations.

    That's what tax hungry Governments do. When they bring forth their resolutions - we will see. Don't be surprised if they want us to build one ! If they have any common sense that's what they should do - gain some offset by powering some of the Towns properties.

    Just leave the home owners alone - what if a person has the space and wants to put in some yard panels ? Is that now gonna be regulated by the Town ? Will you be charged fees/taxes for having them ? Why should you even need a permit ? If a system is installed and inspected by a state licesenced installer - why does the Town need to be involved at all ?
    Last edited by 4248; February 25th, 2017 at 05:48 PM.
    #Dems play musical chairs + patronage and nepotism = entitlement !

  10. #10
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Buffalo, New York, United States
    Posts
    64,948
    That's what tax hungry Governments do. When they bring forth their resolutions - we will see. Don't be surprised if they want us to build one ! If they have any common sense that's what they should do - gain some offset by powering some of the Towns properties.
    Nope. Pay back takes far too long.. Seems the only way there is payback is if you get subsidized with tax credits.... correct? And by the time you are free and clear it's time to replace the panels. The roof tile on the other hand is cool because you are going to replace your roof anyways.

  11. #11
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    4,643
    4248, there's a huge solar facility (at least 1) in California that may have already gone broke. It was teetering last summer. And the product is so uneconomical that companies making the panels etc are failing all over the place. And even our own beloved Solar City looks like it's headed for the dumper before long. One thing seems for sure, those thousands of jobs we were promised are the pipe dream almost everyone with half a brain knew they were. Your town is preventing private property holders from hosting cell towers? Well, if there's a gap in coverage in your town and it can only be filled by a tower on private property my money is on the cell company and the land owner over your mighty town board when the judges finally get hold of it.

  12. #12
    Member gorja's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lancaster, NY
    Posts
    13,150
    PG&E Pilot Solar Plant
    Kerman, California

    Near the town of Kerman, California, sits the new Five Points Solar site, the direct descendent of Pacific Gas & Electric’s pilot solar plant in Kerman, demolished in 2011. The 10-acre site was built in 1992, retired in 1997, and its panels were removed 14 years later after neighbors complained.

    http://www.atlasobscura.com/articles...wind-and-light

    Georgia L Schlager

  13. #13
    Member gorja's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lancaster, NY
    Posts
    13,150
    I do like seeing the board being proactive rather than reactive.

    Georgia L Schlager

  14. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    10,873
    To clarify - I am talking about new solar farms of the privately owned level. Yes some largers wind farms and few solar farms of mega size failed years ago. Mainly for two reasons - some were "Pump and dump" projects like Solyndra. They were built by developers who received hundreds of millions in start up funding and government loans. They failed once the subsidies ran out - many were built using high cost unproven systems.

    The costs today for solar panels have plunged to its lowest cost ever. You can start a "home size" set up for under twenty grand. Most of the stuff you hear about are "lease to own" - those operations have taken most of the profit out - that's why it takes so long to just break even.

    When the government was giving people "rebates" that was the best deal going. You could have a system put in and get 80% of that money rebated directly to you over a three year period.

    Now they have created this new business model where you get energy credits and tax right offs. That's what's killing the industry for home owner installations. Plus you now have the new "line charges" - which further reduces your profits - and the government allows the utility company to pay you less than whole sale for your excess. In most areas the Government is stipulating your system must be tied to the grid. This forces you to sell your excess to the utility company.

    Some states like texas still allows you to sell excess at retail - no line charges. In Nevada they have driven out the smaller home level installers with all the fees and no rebates.

    My brother has been a solar installer for about 15 years in Nevada - now he's in Texas. Another great idea the government regulated to benefit the energy companies and strangle the little guy.

    Solar is growing nationwide and globally like wild fire - that's why Government and the utilities are rushing to get their regulations in place. They all want their piece of the action - just google "Solar India"

    Here's one of the projects in California - Google "Ivanpah Solar Electric Generating System"
    Last edited by 4248; February 27th, 2017 at 12:21 AM.
    #Dems play musical chairs + patronage and nepotism = entitlement !

  15. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    4,643
    4248, Ivanpah is teetering on the verge of financial collapse. The industry is growing like crazy? Really? One company after another is failing, the people peddling this stuff are the new millennium equivalent of "college students" peddling magazine subscriptions door to door in the 1960's, our own beloved Solar City being whacked away at by its owners. Wave of the future!

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Tour de Farms 2009: Explore Buffalo's Local Farms
    By WNYresident in forum Events in WNY
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: September 23rd, 2009, 07:08 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •