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Thread: Town reorganization meeting

  1. #1
    Member dtwarren's Avatar
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    Town reorganization meeting

    From: http://www.westsenecabee.com/news/20...or_superv.html

    Town Board members unanimously approved a lengthy list of items at their annual reorganizational meeting on Jan. 5, setting appointments and salaries for officials, including Town Supervisor Sheila Meegan, whose requested pay increase triggered a backlash from taxpayers in the fall.

    Meegan’s new salary of $72,500, an increase of $9,404 over last year’s $63,096, is $7,596 less than the $17,000 she had originally sought.

    The increase has been a point of bitter contention between the supervisor and residents, who attended board meetings late last year in large numbers to speak out against it prior to approval of the town’s budget.

    While Meegan argued that the raise was deserved, due to over 10 years without an increase and a reduction of staff in her office, residents pushed back, arguing that Meegan knew what her position paid when she ran for office, and called anything above a 2-percent increase unreasonable.

    When the budget finally passed on Nov. 14, Meegan’s requested raise had been cut almost in half.

    Along with the supervisor’s increase, two other officials received marked raises.

    Police Chief Daniel Denz, who made $135,066 in 2016, will be paid $147,201 this year. His assistant chief, Michael Boehringer, who made $118,530 last year, will make $130,251.

    Highway Superintendent Matthew English and Senior Code Enforcement Officer John Gullo will see only slight increases, their salaries rising from $84,994 to $86,694, and from $83,594 to $85,266, respectively.

    Town Clerk Jacqueline Felser, as well as Town Justices Shannon Filbert and Jeffrey Harrington, will also get slight pay increases of approximately $1,000 or less.
    Between these and other increases over the past 7 years how much is the "downsizing" saving us other than the loss of our representation on the board?
    “We in America do not have government by the majority. We have government by the majority who participate.” ― Thomas Jefferson

  2. #2
    WSFirst
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    There was a savings - 2 less employed people, 2 less potential pensions. 3 things that will continue to raise our taxes - salaries, pensions, and rising cost of insurance. Where are you on the police, do you think EC Sheriffs should take over the police, what about eliminating all part-time summer employees and contract out all the maintenance of the parks? How about selling the ice rink or soccer parks? What are your ideas to save money.

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    Member dtwarren's Avatar
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    Notwithstanding the immediate result you mention you neglect to take into account the fact that they hired more employees at a higher rate of pay in shortly thereafter due to the increased work that had to be done. No, I do not believe the EC Sheriffs (or any other agency) should take over until a complete cost/benefits analysis and a proposed contract with the other agency is known: http://www.speakupwny.com/forums/sho...ce-Contract-up
    “We in America do not have government by the majority. We have government by the majority who participate.” ― Thomas Jefferson

  4. #4
    WSFirst
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    Quote Originally Posted by dtwarren View Post
    Notwithstanding the immediate result you mention you neglect to take into account the fact that they hired more employees at a higher rate of pay in shortly thereafter due to the increased work that had to be done. No, I do not believe the EC Sheriffs (or any other agency) should take over until a complete cost/benefits analysis and a proposed contract with the other agency is known: http://www.speakupwny.com/forums/sho...ce-Contract-up
    Full cost analysis? You're telling me we wouldn't save a $1?

    What about the ice rink, soccer park, and other parks I mentioned?

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    Member dtwarren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WSFirst View Post
    Full cost analysis? You're telling me we wouldn't save a $1?
    Without a full cost/benefit analysis you do not know if you would save or not.

    What about the ice rink, soccer park, and other parks I mentioned?
    My position on the Ice Rink was previously discussed, and it appears to me you participated in that discussion: http://www.speakupwny.com/forums/sho...Sports-Complex

    As for the soccer park it is there and I do not believe it will be going anywhere, but if they seek to expand it I would oppose it.

    As for the other parks a community needs parks for a variety of reasons and they are essential to the community. That does not mean that they need to be developed or used for any particular group.
    “We in America do not have government by the majority. We have government by the majority who participate.” ― Thomas Jefferson

  6. #6
    WSFirst
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    Quote Originally Posted by dtwarren View Post
    Without a full cost/benefit analysis you do not know if you would save or not.



    My position on the Ice Rink was previously discussed, and it appears to me you participated in that discussion: http://www.speakupwny.com/forums/sho...Sports-Complex

    As for the soccer park it is there and I do not believe it will be going anywhere, but if they seek to expand it I would oppose it.

    As for the other parks a community needs parks for a variety of reasons and they are essential to the community. That does not mean that they need to be developed or used for any particular group.
    must have missed it? You skipped over the question:

    Why don't you suggest the bidding of landscaping instead of hiring part-time workers?

    You know the study would cost a lot of money. Who would fund a study? Evans taxpayers group came to the conclusion that they would save $400k a year. You don't think that would apply to WS?

  7. #7
    Member dtwarren's Avatar
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    Why would I suggest it in the absence of a study to indicate whether it would be worth doing or not.

    Business does a cost/benefit analysis on any major change that it is considering and they do not have to cost a lot of money, but they do need to take into account all the factors with realistic figures.

    I am not familiar with the Evans taxpayers group's study or its methodology so I cannot comment on whether or not it is a good study or a hack job. For example did they look into whether or not the contractor/sub-contractor would be required to pay their employees at prevailing wage level ( https://applications.labor.ny.gov/wp...?method=showIt ) and take that into consideration or did they just say well business X pays them $Y so we can get it done for $Y? I doubt that it would be directly applicable to West Seneca.
    “We in America do not have government by the majority. We have government by the majority who participate.” ― Thomas Jefferson

  8. #8
    WSFirst
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    Quote Originally Posted by dtwarren View Post
    Why would I suggest it in the absence of a study to indicate whether it would be worth doing or not.

    Business does a cost/benefit analysis on any major change that it is considering and they do not have to cost a lot of money, but they do need to take into account all the factors with realistic figures.

    I am not familiar with the Evans taxpayers group's study or its methodology so I cannot comment on whether or not it is a good study or a hack job. For example did they look into whether or not the contractor/sub-contractor would be required to pay their employees at prevailing wage level ( https://applications.labor.ny.gov/wp...?method=showIt ) and take that into consideration or did they just say well business X pays them $Y so we can get it done for $Y? I doubt that it would be directly applicable to West Seneca.
    https://buffalonews.com/2016/12/22/e...es-save-money/ I'll try to get the report. If you don't honestly believe eliminating the town's own police service, meaning no more people being added to the pension, no more health care costs, no more uniform purchases, etc.

    $6,549,570 is the amount we paid in salaries for the town police, you truly believe we can't save money without a study? Source: Seethroughny.net

    Here is the link and source: http://wwe2.osc.state.ny.us/transpar...alGovIntro.cfm

    Also, check out the debt


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    Member dtwarren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WSFirst View Post
    https://buffalonews.com/2016/12/22/e...es-save-money/ I'll try to get the report. If you don't honestly believe eliminating the town's own police service, meaning no more people being added to the pension, no more health care costs, no more uniform purchases, etc.

    $6,549,570 is the amount we paid in salaries for the town police, you truly believe we can't save money without a study? Source: Seethroughny.net

    Here is the link and source: http://wwe2.osc.state.ny.us/transpar...alGovIntro.cfm

    Also, check out the debt

    No, you have only presented one side of the equation without demonstrating what the realistic costs of what you are proposing to replace it with and whether or not the replacement will provide more, less or the same level of service.
    “We in America do not have government by the majority. We have government by the majority who participate.” ― Thomas Jefferson

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    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    For the most part if I was going to bet if it would save money I would say yes. Just from experience of watching how budgets have been growing.

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    I live in a town with its own police department. I wouldn't give it up for the sheriff to patrol our streets. Sheriff hasn't got the deputies to do it. And when he does the cost goes up for us all. If I need a cop I need one right quick, not when someone from downtown decides when one can be spared. I'm more than happy to pay for local law enforcement because I know first hand that my local cops are top notch. Call me odd but I don't think law enforcement is something I want to do on the cheap. Sometimes you do get what you pay for!

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    Member gorja's Avatar
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    I realize that the Town of Clarence's 2010 population census (30.6k) is only 68% of the Town of West Seneca's 2010 census (44.7k) but life goes on there without their own town $6,000,000 police force.

    Georgia L Schlager

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    Member dtwarren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gorja View Post
    I realize that the Town of Clarence's 2010 population census (30.6k) is only 68% of the Town of West Seneca's 2010 census (44.7k) but life goes on there without their own town $6,000,000 police force.
    Unlike Clarence, West Seneca is a first ring suburb of Buffalo. I am unaware of any first ring suburb of Buffalo that does not have its own police force. With that in mind it would be interesting to see the difference in the call volume between Clarence and West Seneca and see if that proportion is any different than the population proportion.
    “We in America do not have government by the majority. We have government by the majority who participate.” ― Thomas Jefferson

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    Member dtwarren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WSFirst View Post
    You know the study would cost a lot of money. Who would fund a study? Evans taxpayers group came to the conclusion that they would save $400k a year. You don't think that would apply to WS?
    Is this the "study" you are referring to: http://evanstaxpayersunited.com/acct-report ?
    “We in America do not have government by the majority. We have government by the majority who participate.” ― Thomas Jefferson

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    Member dtwarren's Avatar
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    Judging from your silence I can only conclude that it is the "study" you are referring to and you now realize that it is woefully insufficient even for their purposes, let alone for use in West Seneca.
    “We in America do not have government by the majority. We have government by the majority who participate.” ― Thomas Jefferson

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