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Thread: Had enough yet

  1. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Chowaniec View Post
    'Two reports debunk image of immigrants as dangerous' No stats provided to validate claim and no reports in the liberal mainstream media this week on the rape in Maryland and the several other rapes that took place in recent days by illegal immigrants.
    You know, I'm getting real tired of this one right here. 11.2 million (estimated) immigrants in this country and you have your sights set on 1 crime. 2.75 Million people live in Chicago. 129 homicides so far this year. Where's your outrage?? Is it just more acceptable that those are being committed by Americans or that most of them are Black on Black?

    On Obamacare being a failure. I point you to read the updated article Grading Obamacare: Successes, Failures and ‘Incompletes’

    Did Obamacare work?

    The answer may vary with your own experience, but it ultimately depends on what you value. For those who believe the primary goal of the law should have been to bring health insurance to more Americans, the rational answer should be: Yes, Obamacare succeeded. More than 20 million Americans gained health coverage through the law.

    For those who believe the primary goal of the law should have been to make health insurance affordable to all who want it, the rational answer is: No, Obamacare did not achieve uniform affordability. Health care in the United States remains the most expensive in the world, and coverage remains out of the financial reach of many Americans.
    My own personal feeling on Obamacare are that while it has helped a lot of people, it fell short by failing to address the biggest problem in Health Car; Big Pharma and the ridiculous price of medications. Knowing that insurance companies cover the cost of most prescriptions, that is ground zero on how to lower costs, but it goes untouched, probably due to the millions spent on lobbyists and congressional "pay-offs"

    As far as Dems not working with Republicans, how's it feel to have the shoe on the other foot?
    Let me articulate this for you:
    "I'm not locked in here with them. They're locked in here with me!!"
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  2. #107
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    HipKat;1708769]You know, I'm getting real tired of this one right here. 11.2 million (estimated) immigrants in this country and you have your sights set on 1 crime. 2.75 Million people live in Chicago. 129 homicides so far this year. Where's your outrage?? Is it just more acceptable that those are being committed by Americans or that most of them are Black on Black?
    It is much more than one heinous crime and you know it. The biased liberal media will not focus on the crimes committed by illegals because it would put a bad light on the immigration issue.

    As to where is the outrage on the number of Chicago homicides what does that have to do with the illegal immigration crime rate? Violence of any nature is abhorrent and not acceptable and your deflection is but another example of ‘identity politics’ to meaningless mischaracterize someone.

    On Obamacare being a failure. I point you to read the updated article Grading Obamacare: Successes, Failures and ‘Incompletes’

    My own personal feeling on Obamacare are that while it has helped a lot of people, it fell short by failing to address the biggest problem in Health Car; Big Pharma and the ridiculous price of medications. Knowing that insurance companies cover the cost of most prescriptions, that is ground zero on how to lower costs, but it goes untouched, probably due to the millions spent on lobbyists and congressional "pay-offs"
    Both plans suck. I have already acknowledged that.

    As far as Dems not working with Republicans, how's it feel to have the shoe on the other foot?
    Being neither Democrat nor Republican your statement has no relevance to me.

    This practice of adversarial politics has been going on for decades and has now reached a point where total obstruction by either the DEMS and the GOP has become the norm, and where people supporting either party can gloat about the other one’s failure. Tell me how this is good for the best interests of the country; or for people who refuse to blatantly register in either party.

    Again, it is pathetic that we have this brand of politics in our country. It well explains Congress’ approval rating being below 20%.

  3. #108
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    Hip, it's not just the crimes committed by illegals that go on by the dozens every day but are unreported by the likes of the Democratic Party public relations machine locally as ch 2 news. It's the fact that they're imported by the Catholic Church and the Democrats and signed up for welfare as soon as possible. They're the worst of the worlds people, lazy, unproductive types who come from "cultures" mired in centuries of stagnation. Don't think so? Stop by the social security office downtown any day and watch the local meeting of the Arab League. For example Schumer and Gilibrand intervened recently with the State dept to force the issue of a travel visa to an Indian national to participate in a snow shoe race in New York. While here he allegedly molested a 12 year old girl. The State department was aware of his issues and wanted to refuse entry but Schumer and Gilibrand put major pressure on for his admission. Wouldn't it be a kick in the ass if their federally protected families were placed in harm's way as they did to the rest of us? I always thought India was rather warm for snow shoe racing myself.
    Last edited by grump; March 27th, 2017 at 09:04 PM.

  4. #109
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    The point is that everyone group is committing crimes. Illegals. natural born Americans. Politicians.....

    The rest of your post is utter crap. I have know hundreds of Mexican illegals, going back to when I was an iron worker in California and Texas. They were not "the worst of the worst." That's a right wing media term, a hotword used to inspire this kind've nonsense. Now, I'm not saying there isn't any crimes committed by illegals, but to focus on just that group is disingenuous.
    Let me articulate this for you:
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  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by HipKat View Post
    The point is that everyone group is committing crimes. Illegals. natural born Americans. Politicians.....

    The rest of your post is utter crap. I have know hundreds of Mexican illegals, going back to when I was an iron worker in California and Texas. They were not "the worst of the worst." That's a right wing media term, a hotword used to inspire this kind've nonsense. Now, I'm not saying there isn't any crimes committed by illegals, but to focus on just that group is disingenuous.
    My biggest problem with the ILLEGAL immigration issue is the word ILLEGAL.

    To be sure, to focus strictly on those illegals who engage in further illegality seems to be entirely unnecessary. The fact that those individuals are here illegally is sufficient grounds to remove them. It is sad that those who want our immigration laws enforced seemed compelled to offer further supporting facts to justify their proper expectation(s) of law enforcement.

    This morning, New York AG Schniederman called Trump un-American because he wants to penalize "Sanctuary Cities."

    If Trump is un-American because he wants to enforce the existing law, equally, the Congress which passed the existing immigration law, and the President that signed that law, must necessarily have been un-American.

    To the contrary, elected officials, mayors, governors, and presidents, who refuse, or have refused, to enforce the those laws, are those who are acting, or have acted, contrary to the American legal system. This entire argument is convoluted. Wrong is right, and right is wrong.


    What other laws should be defied as a litmus test for being considered a true "American?"
    Last edited by mark blazejewski; March 28th, 2017 at 10:17 AM.

  6. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by HipKat View Post
    The point is that everyone group is committing crimes. Illegals. natural born Americans. Politicians.....

    The rest of your post is utter crap. I have know hundreds of Mexican illegals, going back to when I was an iron worker in California and Texas. They were not "the worst of the worst." That's a right wing media term, a hotword used to inspire this kind've nonsense. Now, I'm not saying there isn't any crimes committed by illegals, but to focus on just that group is disingenuous.
    So which part is crap? The part about Schumer and Gilibrand? That's been reported in the press. The part about the Catholic Church and the Dems doing their best to get illegals on welfare? That's demonstrably true and they don't even really try to deny it. Before you criticize my comments why not stop down to social security and see if Im wrong. I hope you're not trying to maintain that middle eastern and African cultures weren't and haven't remained stagnant for centuries. Such a claim is laughable. And exactly what did I say about Mexicans? Guess I missed that part of my quote!

  7. #112
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    Stop it Mark B. and grump, you guys are not playing fair. You guys are using actual facts and stats instead of "it was reported" or "unknown sources say" or "I was told."

    Be prepared to be identified as racists or xenophobes for your comments.

  8. #113
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    Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not in favor of Welfare for illegal immigrants, and I acknowledge that illegal means the first crime has been committed. And I also get it that we're in fiscal trouble.

    But I also still believe in Give us your Tired, Your poor, Your hungry....


    ...and I guess I have a softer spot for sincere Mexicans that come here and work long hours, start businesses and contribute to their community and the economy.

    Realistically, when people think of immigrants, only 2 usually come to mind; Muslim and Mexican. I have no problem banning Muslims. We're at war with Radical Islam and none should be trusted.


    Lee, wrong much?
    Let me articulate this for you:
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  9. #114
    Member mark blazejewski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HipKat View Post
    Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not in favor of Welfare for illegal immigrants, and I acknowledge that illegal means the first crime has been committed. And I also get it that we're in fiscal trouble.

    But I also still believe in Give us your Tired, Your poor, Your hungry....


    ...and I guess I have a softer spot for sincere Mexicans that come here and work long hours, start businesses and contribute to their community and the economy.

    Realistically, when people think of immigrants, only 2 usually come to mind; Muslim and Mexican. I have no problem banning Muslims. We're at war with Radical Islam and none should be trusted.


    Lee, wrong much?
    HipKat,

    Your comments APPEAR to illustrate the issue in a very clear way.

    Advocates for illegal immigration have skillfully, but unjustly, managed to link law enforcement to racism and bigotry. Therefore, decent thinking people, such as yourself, may be inhibited from forthrightly stating their support for enforcement of the existing immigration laws.



    The traditional welcoming principles of America were always based on the application of law, written to preserve and grow the melting pot which is the American nation.

    However, those who call for unlimited tolerance of illegal immigration, who employ semantic twists to describe the illegals as "undocumented workers" or "undocumented immigrants," and/or broadly paint those of the opposing view(s) as "racists" and "bigots," apparently do not want the traditional American "melting pot" based on law and viable assimilation.

    Rather, for whatever reason, they seem to prefer, and advocate for, a witches brew of anarchy, which may tend to destroy the heretofore common, yet diverse, American national identity with all of its attendant strengths.

  10. #115
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    I don't know how my comments appear to anyone else, but to me, they appear to place me right where I usually find myself; in the center.

    Ref: Muslims. Very far to the right on this one. This list is more than enough to convince me that the only way to defeat radicals to is to become radical in our defense. We are at war with Radical Islam. Maybe we never wanted to make it a religion based war, but they they did back when the words Jihad and infidels were first uttered. Our enemy does not stand out by a particular uniform, but hides behind the face of the people he supposedly represents. None can nor should be trusted until this war is over. I have not, since prior to 9/11, and more so since, met one person of Arab dissent without that little nag in the back of my mind wondering......

    And I don't care what those pacifists say. I didn't create the situation. They did and the innocent, good intentioned Muslims that sat on their hands, kept their mouths shut and turned a blind eye are just as guilty.

    Illegals who are here to commit crimes (other than being illegal) - pretty far to the right on this, also. I have no quarter for anyone that primarily lives their life with criminal intent to cheat, kill or steal.

    But when it comes to people who come here with good intentions to create a better life, I have to wonder, what exactly IS the law? do they come here, apply for a visa then hope they can become citizens before the visa runs out? What IS the time limit on a visa? Why does it even run out? They're obviously on the books, and hopefully working the process, but once you plant roots and then some bureaucrat says it's time to go, I can almost sympathize with breaking the law to stay - and at this point, following the lawful path to citizenship is broken
    Let me articulate this for you:
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  11. #116
    Member mark blazejewski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HipKat View Post
    I don't know how my comments appear to anyone else, but to me, they appear to place me right where I usually find myself; in the center.

    Ref: Muslims. Very far to the right on this one. This list is more than enough to convince me that the only way to defeat radicals to is to become radical in our defense. We are at war with Radical Islam. Maybe we never wanted to make it a religion based war, but they they did back when the words Jihad and infidels were first uttered. Our enemy does not stand out by a particular uniform, but hides behind the face of the people he supposedly represents. None can nor should be trusted until this war is over. I have not, since prior to 9/11, and more so since, met one person of Arab dissent without that little nag in the back of my mind wondering......

    And I don't care what those pacifists say. I didn't create the situation. They did and the innocent, good intentioned Muslims that sat on their hands, kept their mouths shut and turned a blind eye are just as guilty.

    Illegals who are here to commit crimes (other than being illegal) - pretty far to the right on this, also. I have no quarter for anyone that primarily lives their life with criminal intent to cheat, kill or steal.

    But when it comes to people who come here with good intentions to create a better life, I have to wonder, what exactly IS the law? do they come here, apply for a visa then hope they can become citizens before the visa runs out? What IS the time limit on a visa? Why does it even run out? They're obviously on the books, and hopefully working the process, but once you plant roots and then some bureaucrat says it's time to go, I can almost sympathize with breaking the law to stay - and at this point, following the lawful path to citizenship is broken
    HipKat,

    Apparently, my interpretation of your words is incorrect.

    I apologize, but my mistake can be attributed to your suggestion that you seem to favor some aspects of enforcement, but some with exceptions.

    You did say you are "in the center" with respect to the immigration law. I respect what you are saying. But, the law is the law. If you or I were "in the center" on Federal Tax Law, and obeyed that law selectively, we would be commenting on Speak Up from Leavenworth.

    HipKat: I have to wonder, what exactly IS the law?

    The law that I am referring to is the "Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965," Public Law 89-236. It is also known as the Hart-Cellars Act. The law was passed to reverse the quota systems of the "Emergency Quota Act" of 1921.

  12. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by mark blazejewski View Post
    HipKat,

    Apparently, my interpretation of your words is incorrect.

    I apologize, but my mistake can be attributed to your suggestion that you seem to favor some aspects of enforcement, but some with exceptions.

    You did say you are "in the center" with respect to the immigration law. I respect what you are saying. But, the law is the law. If you or I were "in the center" on Federal Tax Law, and obeyed that law selectively, we would be commenting on Speak Up from Leavenworth.

    HipKat: I have to wonder, what exactly IS the law?

    The law that I am referring to is the "Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965," Public Law 89-236. It is also known as the Hart-Cellars Act. The law was passed to reverse the quota systems of the "Emergency Quota Act" of 1921.
    Most recently, in 1986 and 1990, supplemental legislation was approved to reform and control immigration, and to provide more latitude for those of the Gay lifestyle.

  13. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by HipKat View Post
    Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not in favor of Welfare for illegal immigrants, and I acknowledge that illegal means the first crime has been committed. And I also get it that we're in fiscal trouble.

    But I also still believe in Give us your Tired, Your poor, Your hungry....


    ...and I guess I have a softer spot for sincere Mexicans that come here and work long hours, start businesses and contribute to their community and the economy.

    Realistically, when people think of immigrants, only 2 usually come to mind; Muslim and Mexican. I have no problem banning Muslims. We're at war with Radical Islam and none should be trusted.


    Lee, wrong much?
    Not at all.

    Thanks for sharing; and with civility.

    We are a land of immigrants. Our roots are all based in immigration from our forefathers. In my era all were legal and had to have documents and a sponsor. They learned the English language quickly and assimilated into the American culture. We should follow a process and a quota that enriches America and is in the country’s best interests economically and culturally.

    While we all have compassion for the less fortunate, and where no one I know believes ‘anchor’ babies should be deported. Illegals (especially those living here 20-30 years) have committed a civil crime and when they compound that with a felonious criminal crime, I see no reason for Sanctuary Cities and/or reason for not deporting such types. Spending our country’s resources on such illegals would be better spent on taking care of America's less fortunate.

    As someone who never affiliated with any political party, I see myself as a centrist; more right to center regarding fiscal responsibility; and have never voted along party lines. I have never encountered a more hateful and mean-spirited political atmosphere – on the local level as well as the national. Both major political parties are acting worse than petulant children. In their wake of lies, fake news and obstructionism they nurture a polarized nation and diminish its exceptionalness.

    If only the a-holes in Washington would sit down and have a serious discussion and come to some decision that would bode well for the citizenry.

    As for the refugee program, I will defer from commenting as I had a family member that worked in the Catholic Charities refugee settlement program and I heard as much bad as good about the program’s clientele - even back then.

  14. #119
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    Ref. the political atmosphere.

    When Bush was President, I remember saying the same thing. When Obama was President, I remember thinking the Political atmosphere was worse. Now, even worse. I think it's almost enough to consider it a trend. A civil war brewing based on party lines and political persuasions and each side clinging to whatever policy they can attack.

    It seriously, in my belief, does not bode well for the future.

    Mark, instead of the word law, I should have asked, what's the procedure.

    Now the tax laws are a different story. Everyone looks for loopholes. Well, many do and the people Lee referred to as being here for 30 years, aren't they exploiting a loophole?
    Let me articulate this for you:
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  15. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by HipKat View Post
    Ref. the political atmosphere.

    When Bush was President, I remember saying the same thing. When Obama was President, I remember thinking the Political atmosphere was worse. Now, even worse. I think it's almost enough to consider it a trend. A civil war brewing based on party lines and political persuasions and each side clinging to whatever policy they can attack.

    It seriously, in my belief, does not bode well for the future.

    Mark, instead of the word law, I should have asked, what's the procedure.

    Now the tax laws are a different story. Everyone looks for loopholes. Well, many do and the people Lee referred to as being here for 30 years, aren't they exploiting a loophole?
    HipKat,

    Law or procedure, both terms are synonyms for an orderly process. The comprehensive history of our immigration laws and/or policies served to create the "melting pot" of which we are all an ingredient, and of which we can all be proud.

    I do not necessarily oppose accommodating an increase in the numbers of LEGAL immigrants, but that increase should be provided for within a legal context. My position: thoughtfully and legally, AMEND THE EXISTING LAW, (the "Sanctuary City" concept does not legally address the issue), modify procedures and ceilings, and restore stability and order to our immigration process.

    Laws are changed all the time. Forty-five years ago when I started to drive, one could not legally make a right hand turn at a red light. The law was changed to legalize what was a very common illegal habit. With the new law, came rules, regulations and restrictions, which addressed many of the hazards that the former illegal habit posed. As such, an illegal act was transformed into a legal, orderly, and safe choice.

    The current state is like I have stated, a witch's brew of anarchy. The current state, I believe, is not viable or tolerable.
    Last edited by mark blazejewski; March 29th, 2017 at 08:36 AM.

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