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Thread: Canalside, the family attraction.

  1. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linda_D View Post
    I'm beginning to see where you're grumpiness is coming from Grumplet. You sound like a Masiello-Giambra-Paladino henchman who's been discarded and left on the side of the economic development road by the Brown regime and the new people who are busily reshaping the city while you don't even get crumbs. Poor baby. It must chap your arse royally to see and hear good things happening in the city and region when you and your bigoted, self-serving pals are on the outside looking in.

    If you're so enamored of Indianapolis, feel free to move there, but of course, we all know you'll have 999 reasons why you "can't".
    The Brown regime? Really? Hate to break this to ya sweety but Erkel has the power to do dick thanks to the presence of a control board which takes over the second he falls back into the pattern of the ones you mentioned in your rant. In fact, it's largely the existence of the control board that has pushed city government out of the way. I'm not enamored of Indianapolis although it does have its attractions. I was pointing out that the stadium there can function as a convention host site and a similar model here might obviate the need to build a stand alone replacement here. Sorry to write above your level to understand. And your comment about Paladino is comical. He and guys like Dave Sweet were buying into downtown long before most of the newcomers were begging for their tax breaks to do it.

  2. #212
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    Speaking of Indianapolis, they are growing they gained nearly 40,000 people since 2010

  3. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by grump View Post
    The Brown regime? Really? Hate to break this to ya sweety but Erkel has the power to do dick thanks to the presence of a control board which takes over the second he falls back into the pattern of the ones you mentioned in your rant. In fact, it's largely the existence of the control board that has pushed city government out of the way. I'm not enamored of Indianapolis although it does have its attractions. I was pointing out that the stadium there can function as a convention host site and a similar model here might obviate the need to build a stand alone replacement here. Sorry to write above your level to understand. And your comment about Paladino is comical. He and guys like Dave Sweet were buying into downtown long before most of the newcomers were begging for their tax breaks to do it.
    ROTFLMAO.

    • Tony Masiello was mayor from 1994 to 2005. Joel Giambra was his pal. So was Carl Paladino. The three of them were thick as thieves, literally as well as figuratively, with Paladino making stacks of money based on inside info about proposed projects (like moving the Buffalo Zoo to the Outer Harbor), getting "Friday afternoon demo orders" to level historic buildings, and gaining a virtual monopoly on downtown parking. He practiced "demolition by neglect" with impunity by buying up properties in and around downtown Buffalo and letting them rot. He "bought into downtown" the same way a vulture "buys into" a carcass.
    • As for the city control board, it was instituted in 2003 after a fiscal crisis that was brought on by Masiello's incompetence and the shoddy accounting practices by city comptroller Joel Giambra who moved onward and upward to screw over the county taxpayers before the manure hit the fan in the city.
    • The county fiscal control board was instituted in 2006 because of the fiscal mismanagement of Republican Joel Giambra who turned the massive surplus he inherited from Democrat Dennis Gorski into a massive deficit. Apparently, Giambra changed his political party but not his accounting/spending practices. He was being touted by state Republicans for the governorship until his misappropriation of county monies from the tobacco settlement and from the sale of ECMC to itself was discovered. He's lucky he only ended up as a persona non grata among politicians rather than in prison.


    FYI, the convention center business is a scam. The only ones who make money from convention centers are the companies that build them. Virtually all convention centers run in the red, even the ones in the biggest and most popular convention cities, because there are simply too many convention centers all around the country of every size, and Buffalo is certainly not a great convention city. Sharing a convention center with a pro football team would mean that the convention center couldn't be used from September through at least early January. Who's coming to Buffalo in February and March?

    If you actually knew anything but propaganda about politics or economic development, you'd know this. These aren't exactly newly revealed facts.

    BTW, for somebody who doesn't have any power, Mayor Byron Brown has seen lots of real progress in the city on his watch. My guess is that what chaps your fanny the most is that you and your crowd are on the outside looking in.
    Your right to buy a military weapon without hindrance, delay or training cannot trump Daniel Barden’s right to see his eighth birthday. -- Jim Himes

  4. #214
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    I have to disagree with you about Paladino. He simply waited for the right time. Look at what he did with the Fairmont... it definitely wouldn't be what it is if he had started it sooner. He also did the Belesario, long before any major development was happening. And he's one of the first to invest in Niagara Falls, with The Giacomo.

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    Speaking of Paladino remember his proposed office tower 50 Court

    http://www.bizjournals.com/buffalo/s...0/daily57.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Linda_D View Post
    ROTFLMAO.

    • Tony Masiello was mayor from 1994 to 2005. Joel Giambra was his pal. So was Carl Paladino. The three of them were thick as thieves, literally as well as figuratively, with Paladino making stacks of money based on inside info about proposed projects (like moving the Buffalo Zoo to the Outer Harbor), getting "Friday afternoon demo orders" to level historic buildings, and gaining a virtual monopoly on downtown parking. He practiced "demolition by neglect" with impunity by buying up properties in and around downtown Buffalo and letting them rot. He "bought into downtown" the same way a vulture "buys into" a carcass.
    • As for the city control board, it was instituted in 2003 after a fiscal crisis that was brought on by Masiello's incompetence and the shoddy accounting practices by city comptroller Joel Giambra who moved onward and upward to screw over the county taxpayers before the manure hit the fan in the city.
    • The county fiscal control board was instituted in 2006 because of the fiscal mismanagement of Republican Joel Giambra who turned the massive surplus he inherited from Democrat Dennis Gorski into a massive deficit. Apparently, Giambra changed his political party but not his accounting/spending practices. He was being touted by state Republicans for the governorship until his misappropriation of county monies from the tobacco settlement and from the sale of ECMC to itself was discovered. He's lucky he only ended up as a persona non grata among politicians rather than in prison.


    FYI, the convention center business is a scam. The only ones who make money from convention centers are the companies that build them. Virtually all convention centers run in the red, even the ones in the biggest and most popular convention cities, because there are simply too many convention centers all around the country of every size, and Buffalo is certainly not a great convention city. Sharing a convention center with a pro football team would mean that the convention center couldn't be used from September through at least early January. Who's coming to Buffalo in February and March?

    If you actually knew anything but propaganda about politics or economic development, you'd know this. These aren't exactly newly revealed facts.

    BTW, for somebody who doesn't have any power, Mayor Byron Brown has seen lots of real progress in the city on his watch. My guess is that what chaps your fanny the most is that you and your crowd are on the outside looking in.

    You're absolutely right. Erkel has seen a lot of change; he's had nothing to do with it but I'll agree he's likely seen it. I know when the control board came into effect and since then city government has been restrained from its historic self destructive crappola. That was my point. Who's coming to Buffalo in February or March? Almost no one...just like the rest of the year except for the Sabes making some inroads with the NHL. If you're in favor of scrapping the convention center idea completely in a dump like Buffalo I'm right there with ya. I know full well that convention centers run in the red but they're considered loss leaders to get people into town to dump money on local attractions. Of course that works best in cities that actually have some attractions. I disagree that a convention center can't be connected to a stadium because of football season. Most teams have separate practice facilities that they use during the season and the stadiums sit largely unused even during the weeks of home games and there are many ways of configuring such facilities. I will concede that were Buffalo to try such a concept it would almost assuredly end up in a mess. We've already built a new medical school building that's not big enough to hold the medical school. An area that can pull that off can accomplish anything. What exactly am I supposed to be on the outside of and looking in at? And what is this crowd I'm a part of?

  7. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neubs24 View Post
    I have to disagree with you about Paladino. He simply waited for the right time.
    Yeah he waited for the right time, but he let the properties rot for decades while everyone waited for him to do something with them. Some developers like Paladino wait for the right time when the city environment has improved around them... but other developers help create the right time instead of waiting for it. I think Paladino's son is better though. He seems more in tune with how city development should be done.

  8. #218
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    1. Quote Originally Posted by Linda_D View Post
      ROTFLMAO.

    Quote Originally Posted by Linda_D View Post
    • Tony Masiello was mayor from 1994 to 2005. Joel Giambra was his pal. So was Carl Paladino. The three of them were thick as thieves, literally as well as figuratively, with Paladino making stacks of money based on inside info about proposed projects (like moving the Buffalo Zoo to the Outer Harbor), getting "Friday afternoon demo orders" to level historic buildings, and gaining a virtual monopoly on downtown parking. He practiced "demolition by neglect" with impunity by buying up properties in and around downtown Buffalo and letting them rot. He "bought into downtown" the same way a vulture "buys into" a carcass.
    • As for the city control board, it was instituted in 2003 after a fiscal crisis that was brought on by Masiello's incompetence and the shoddy accounting practices by city comptroller Joel Giambra who moved onward and upward to screw over the county taxpayers before the manure hit the fan in the city.
    • The county fiscal control board was instituted in 2006 because of the fiscal mismanagement of Republican Joel Giambra who turned the massive surplus he inherited from Democrat Dennis Gorski into a massive deficit. Apparently, Giambra changed his political party but not his accounting/spending practices. He was being touted by state Republicans for the governorship until his misappropriation of county monies from the tobacco settlement and from the sale of ECMC to itself was discovered. He's lucky he only ended up as a persona non grata among politicians rather than in prison.


    FYI, the convention center business is a scam. The only ones who make money from convention centers are the companies that build them. Virtually all convention centers run in the red, even the ones in the biggest and most popular convention cities, because there are simply too many convention centers all around the country of every size, and Buffalo is certainly not a great convention city. Sharing a convention center with a pro football team would mean that the convention center couldn't be used from September through at least early January. Who's coming to Buffalo in February and March?

    If you actually knew anything but propaganda about politics or economic development, you'd know this. These aren't exactly newly revealed facts.

    BTW, for somebody who doesn't have any power, Mayor Byron Brown has seen lots of real progress in the city on his watch. My guess is that what chaps your fanny the most is that you and your crowd are on the outside looking in.

    A couple of counter points on this....


    In regards to your 'thick as thieves' comment
    I am not going to refute that a very small amount of people made a lot of money while Tony was mayor. What I will say is that in the absence of of a thriving economy and in one that has a lot of artificial generation...there are always going to be insiders that make more money than they should.

    Just who do you think takes home the money when Buffalo spends $400k to create 'affordable housing' like it does? People always talk about the need for low rent but nobody talks about the fact it does not take $400k to build a housing unit in Buffalo. I'd also love to her your thoughts on the Preacher/Grassroots network in Buffalo. Do you think they are great at business or are they 'thick as thieves' as well working their connection to Brown.

    It's the same game...just different names. The only way to change that is to have a market of true demand and competition. While closer than 20 years ago...this still does not exist in Buffalo.



    In regards to you convention centers being a scam comments

    First I'll say that you're 100% wrong on your claim that "Sharing a convention center with a pro football team would mean that the convention center couldn't be used from September through at least early January". To start this is just a stupid claim. Convention centers can run multiple events in a week and often do. To suggest an attached convention center could not run Monday-Saturday because of a football game on a connected structure on Sunday is just downright stupid. They have things called walls, doors and locks. San Diego is looking to build one of these combos and St. Louis had one. They did not shut down the convention center during football so take this BS elsewhere.


    I'll give you that many due run in the red. That said, I think you're wrong to paint the entire industry with a single brush stroke. Consider:


    1. Contention centers that are run by the private market do much better than public run ones. Example is LA I don't think why this is the case is difficult for anyone to grasp, so I'll just say private is better than public.
    2. The demand for contention/meeting space is changing. It's no longer about the biggest halls but rather a diverse mix of meeting space and things to do around the convention. A good read.



    So what does this mean for Buffalo? My personal take is Buffalo/Erie County/WNY would be foolish to build a new convention center. We can agree that public convention centers have a really, really difficult time in providing a return. But this does not mean a new convention center shouldn't be built or that a new convention center can be profitable in Buffalo.

    I think the way forward for Buffalo to get a convention center is partner with a company to build and manage it. I could see a % of the money coming from the public but it should be small. What's most important for the public to give is taking the current convention center offline, even if there is no redevelopment opportunity for it.

    If you recall, Jacobs and Delaware North has said in the past they want to be a part of the new stadium project. Jacobs is a pro owner but stuff is in Boston. His HQ is in Buffalo. His company does....wait for it....manages resorts, restaurants, specialty retail and travel hospitality. They are essentially on paper the perfect example of a private company that would, could and should run a convention center.

    Take a look at the image below. It outlines a possible path forward for the new Bills stadium based on one of the 4 selected locations. There is room for a connected convention center. There is room for a lifestyle district full of specialty retail. There is room for a hotel. If you put your hate down it's pretty easy to see there is an opportunity that fits DNC, Pegual and WNY there.

    All of that said, if they can't get a DNC or similar to build/manage it....there shouldn't be a convention center built. All I am showing is that there should be one and it can work.



  9. #219
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    I am curious to whatever became of the millions of dollars of unaccounted HUD money. There was supposed to be an investigation.

  10. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by Save Us View Post
    I am curious to whatever became of the millions of dollars of unaccounted HUD money. There was supposed to be an investigation.
    There was an investigation. It's conclusion: the money's gone. The $ was used to provide do nothing jobs for friends and family. (In this regard see Mark Poloncarz and the Board of Elections). Likely this happened because the then Secretary of HUD, some guy named Cuomo, and the mayor were quite close.

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