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Thread: Buffalo Billion bombshell seemingly fits into the Buffalo narrative

  1. #16
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    Quote Originally Posted by grump View Post
    Everyone, the last post on this thread supposedly made by me was not posted by me. I'm not a big fan of class action lawsuits which typically line the pockets of the lawyers for the class while the class members end up with $25 worth of coupons or something. And while I'm no expert on the subject I can't see a court certifying the taxpayers of NYS as a class. My post, part of which is quoted in the last post attributed to me has disappeared from the thread. It must have been there else wise no one could've grabbed the quote.


    My fault... I hit edit post instead of reply. Then posted what I thought


    Class Action lawsuit for the money given.

  2. #17
    Member leftWNYbecauseofBS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 300miles View Post
    The total number of jobs haven't changed ... so they say.
    True but I think the type of jobs may be an issue long term. I think there is a pretty large penalty ($41million ?) each year SolarCity does not hit the jobs target but I don't know how long that agreement lasts.

    It's much harder to move a manufacturing job than a sales/marketing/engineering job because you would need to move the plant for the former. I don't think it's out of the question to fear that once the agreement ends there would be a high probability to move all of the non-manufacturing jobs somewhere else.

  3. #18
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    Gov. Cuomo admits wrongdoing is possible

    ALBANY - The size and scope of New York's state government makes it "unrealistic" to expect bad actors won't participate in wrongdoing, Gov. Andrew Cuomo said Tuesday.

    Cuomo, speaking to reporters in New York City, faced another round of questions surrounding the ongoing investigation by U.S. Attorney Preet Bharara's office, which is examining the Cuomo administration's major economic-development initiatives, including the Buffalo Billion program.
    WGRZ

  4. #19
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    Wrongdoing is not just possible it's woven into the operation of state government thanks to Cuomo.

  5. #20
    Member 300miles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leftWNYbecauseofBS View Post
    True but I think the type of jobs may be an issue long term. I think there is a pretty large penalty ($41million ?) each year SolarCity does not hit the jobs target but I don't know how long that agreement lasts.

    It's much harder to move a manufacturing job than a sales/marketing/engineering job because you would need to move the plant for the former. I don't think it's out of the question to fear that once the agreement ends there would be a high probability to move all of the non-manufacturing jobs somewhere else.
    I see what you're saying. But Buffalo knows all too well that if a company wants to relocate manufacturing jobs, they will find a way to do it. And in this case Solar City doesn't even own the plant. So I don't really see the type of job adding any real security. I think the key to this adventure with Solar City is not to depend on them for the long haul, but to get a whole new industry setup in Buffalo with multiple companies and job types (suppliers, vendors, competitors, manufacturing, sales, engineering, etc.) that creates a life of its own, even if Solar City eventually fades out of the picture.

  6. #21
    Member leftWNYbecauseofBS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 300miles View Post
    I see what you're saying. But Buffalo knows all too well that if a company wants to relocate manufacturing jobs, they will find a way to do it. And in this case Solar City doesn't even own the plant. So I don't really see the type of job adding any real security.
    This is very true. My hope that since this plant is going to be so heavily automated there will be less pressure from labor in regards to wages to force this consideration. So my hope is that this brings some level of security as compared to a plant that has guys putting screws in sheet metal looking to make $80k a year.

    Quote Originally Posted by 300miles View Post
    I think the key to this adventure with Solar City is not to depend on them for the long haul, but to get a whole new industry setup in Buffalo with multiple companies and job types (suppliers, vendors, competitors, manufacturing, sales, engineering, etc.) that creates a life of its own, even if Solar City eventually fades out of the picture.
    I really wish they would have kept the original RiverBend plan where there would be multiple companies on the same site. I said it before here but I still think Buffalo should try to explore that on another site on the river. Personally, I think 'elevator alley' would be a perfect spot as I don't see any value in ruins of former things...especially if they were to be replaced with a modern campus.

    I really think the key for this is to get UB, Buffalo State and Canisus involved in some way.

  7. #22
    Member HipKat's Avatar
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    I think the idea is to lure more Green industries to the area, isn't it?
    Let me articulate this for you:
    "I'm not locked in here with them. They're locked in here with me!!"
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  8. #23
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    People, this is political corruption, pure and simple. I hate to be the one to break this to all of you, but manufacturing is almost completely automated and isn't going to create jobs, especially at a company like Solar City that could be gone by a week from Wednsday. It was nothing more than another massive transfer of public funds to Democratic supporter Elon Musk with some local "friends" making out along the way.

  9. #24
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    So how much money do we think was skimmed by the "lawyers" working on this theft of public funds? That is exactly how I see it. A group of people took funds from NYS tax payers and gave it to another business. It wasn't like the money was used to repair roads, bridges and/or small infrastructure projects. I also don't want to hear BS about "We'll the state owns the manufacturing plant" we didn't actually give it to someone. Best words of advice. Do what is in the best interest of your family. If that means leave the state then do so. The people currently controlling NYS government are incompetent when it comes to competing with other communities in the USA.

  10. #25
    Member leftWNYbecauseofBS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grump View Post
    manufacturing is almost completely automated and isn't going to create jobs

    This is a bit incorrect.

    Unskilled manufacturing is pretty much dead in the US. The numbers simply don't work out most of the time to have someone screw a bolt into a hole for 8hrs a day. That is unless there are outside influences supporting that.

    Skilled manufacturing is not dead. In fact it's booming. But you need to have many more skills than the unskilled guy from the past. That's the problem. Nothing is 'almost completely automated' as you suggest. That would require AI and that's not here yet. What exists today are people who can manage software, robotics and machines to do the work that used to be done or could not be done by human hands.

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    Well Leftie I guess that depends on what one means by "almost completely automated". People around here await the return of the auto plants of the 60's and that's never gonna happen. So let's just day that manufacturing is 2/3 automated. Solar City is providing 1/3 of the manufacturing jobs that were being bandied about when this bill of goods was being peddled. There will always have to be someone to mind the store but is that worth $700 million of taxpayer money to you? Not to me.

  12. #27
    Member leftWNYbecauseofBS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grump View Post
    Well Leftie I guess that depends on what one means by "almost completely automated". People around here await the return of the auto plants of the 60's and that's never gonna happen. So let's just day that manufacturing is 2/3 automated. Solar City is providing 1/3 of the manufacturing jobs that were being bandied about when this bill of goods was being peddled. There will always have to be someone to mind the store but is that worth $700 million of taxpayer money to you? Not to me.
    Ya. Those plants are not coming back.

    I think almost completely automated means you have people running robots or machines that do the bulk of the work.

    Was this a good use of taxpayer money? I don't think so. The main reason is they went 'all in' with one company. I think if they would have built that campus it would have been a much different story.

    The thing is you need to do something...

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by leftWNYbecauseofBS View Post
    Ya. Those plants are not coming back.

    I think almost completely automated means you have people running robots or machines that do the bulk of the work.

    Was this a good use of taxpayer money? I don't think so. The main reason is they went 'all in' with one company. I think if they would have built that campus it would have been a much different story.

    The thing is you need to do something...
    Just about every news source I have read is telling us to prepare for the loss of many jobs due to automation, and with advances in technology everyday that trend will intensify. Which arguably is a good thing because it increases productivity. Economic growth comes from increasing productivity.. Whitney's cotton gin did that in the 1800's .

  14. #29
    Member Frank Broughton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 300miles View Post
    Correct. The buffalo billion money is NYS funding from Albany. I don't think any local IDA's get a cut from it.
    No it was our money they stole and gave back! (Niagara Falls electric anyone?)

    I said from day one that place will be a ghost town in 10 years (or less). The land is cursed.
    The above is opinion & commentary, I am exercising my 1st Amendment rights as a US citizen. Posts are NOT made with any malicious intent.

  15. #30
    Member Frank Broughton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WNYresident View Post
    My fault... I hit edit post instead of reply. Then posted what I thought


    Class Action lawsuit for the money given.
    Oh so only YOU can edit a post - it is totally bogus you do not allow us to edit our own posts!
    The above is opinion & commentary, I am exercising my 1st Amendment rights as a US citizen. Posts are NOT made with any malicious intent.

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