The deadline approachs -

[Breezy]

Firstly, although pensions are "earned" they certainly are by no means free or without cost. They are funded by the public largess. It contributes to the high cost of living in this state. They are burdensome. Pensions absolutely have the ability to bankrupt a municipality.
Further, you cannot compare an orthopedic surgeon to a fire fighter, so I won't even go there.

Consider generous guaranteed pensions of the public servant vs. this.

62% of all Americans have less than 1,000 dollars in the bank. 21% have no savings at all.
For the first time ever, middle class Americans now make up a minority of the population, In 1971 61% of households were middle class
According to the Pew Research Center the median income of middle class households declined by 4 percent from 2000-2014
Median wealth for middle class households dropped by 28% between 2001 and 2013the SSA REPORTS THAT 51% OF ALL American workers make less than 30,000 dollars per year
The number of Americans that are living in concentrated areas of high poverty has doubled since 2000
102 million Americans do not have a job
40% of all children in the US that are being raised by a single parent are living in poverty.


I could go on and on and on, but you get the picture. It's a shame that the powers that be don't consider the balance between what public service pays and what is increasingly harder to afford by those that are served.

As citizens we need to correct the state sponsored ethos of "getting yours" and bring it back into balance, until that time people will continue to move to states and areas with lower costs and lower tax burdens, but in any given year that may only be 10-14% of the population. I feel bad for the tax payers that are squeezed and have no choice,

Seems to me these government sector employees were pretty smart to take these jobs back when people shunned government sector jobs as compared to private sector careers where the chance for wealth was seen as something you couldn't get with a government career. Not many people coveted a career at the DMV, prison, Clerk's office, or the others. Law enforcement and/or professional firefighting was a calling for many, of course.

Do you just swipe these benefits that people worked, say, thirty years to get?

Nice!

Fortunately you are without power Save Us. Other than your one vote, LOL.

At least you'll be happy to know that most new hires in "government" will have to pay 100% of their health care in retirement and pension benefits for them also have been reduced.

Now you're bringing statistics for the whole country into this thread?

The scapegoating is just offensive.

[Breezy]

Geez Breezy says, ‘she deserves it and no taxpayer is hurt’. Are you in the same retirement system Breezy or plain nuts?

Another lie, Lee.

I never wrote ‘she deserves it and no taxpayer is hurt’ and you know it!

I wrote she earned it and it does not bother me at all.

You're twisting in the wind once more, Lee Chowaniec.

And I thought Zarbo the Clown was bad.

LOL



Oh, not in the same retirement system and you already have diagnosed me as plain nuts!!!

[4248]

Back when as Breezy stated "People shunned public service jobs" - was because in the 80's they earned far less - like a Council Member was paid $1700.00 a year and didnt get pensions or healthcare. Thats why it was known as "Public Service" - many people used to actually volunteer their time to help their Community !

So as stated before - they quietly passed local laws that entitled them to every thing the workers got and more. They made campaign fodder by saying, "Look what we are giving our employees" - "we will insure our employees get good benefits" - "Look what we are doing for you" - OH what grand standing tax funded glad handers they have been - all for the Community - for the kids !

They forgot to mention, "Even Part time (10 hours a month) Politicians/Elected and appointed Patronage employees will get the same. They didn't mention they would have tax funded pensions - no co pay insurance - no personal contribution healthcare - dental insurance - eye care and even AFLAC Insurance - all tax funded.

Then a few of them took it further and collected insurance from more than one position - like while collecting as Town Supervisor and collecting insurance from the Boys and Girls Club. Or bieng a school teacher and getting two tax funded pensions ! Or now as we see - collecting their tax funded pensions and full tax funded pay at the same time. And we thought Councilman Aquino was bad with five or six tax funded checks a month (no one knows to this day what he's still collecting) ?

You people just keep taking more - its all tax funded ! If you had true labor jobs there is no way on earth you'd have so much.

Generations on Political Welfare - aren't you all so proud ? Yes they were slick to turn "Public Service" into a tax funded wealth building tool !:

[Breezy]

Back when as Breezy stated "People shunned public service jobs" - was because in the 80's they earned far less - like a Council Member was paid $1700.00 a year and didnt get pensions or healthcare. Thats why it was known as "Public Service" - many people used to actually volunteer their time to help their Community !

So as stated before - they quietly passed local laws that entitled them to every thing the workers got and more. They made campaign fodder by saying, "Look what we are giving our employees" - "we will insure our employees get good benefits" - "Look what we are doing for you" - OH what grand standing tax funded glad handers they have been - all for the Community - for the kids !

They forgot to mention, "Even Part time (10 hours a month) Politicians/Elected and appointed Patronage employees will get the same. They didn't mention they would have tax funded pensions - no co pay insurance - no personal contribution healthcare - dental insurance - eye care and even AFLAC Insurance - all tax funded.

Then a few of them took it further and collected insurance from more than one position - like while collecting as Town Supervisor and collecting insurance from the Boys and Girls Club. Or bieng a school teacher and getting two tax funded pensions ! Or now as we see - collecting their tax funded pensions and full tax funded pay at the same time. And we thought Councilman Aquino was bad with five or six tax funded checks a month (no one knows to this day what he's still collecting) ?

You people just keep taking more - its all tax funded ! If you had true labor jobs there is no way on earth you'd have so much.

Generations on Political Welfare - aren't you all so proud ? Yes they were slick to turn "Public Service" into a tax funded wealth building tool !:

Again you just come off as jealous and jealous that you personally blew it for yourself due to ego.

And you are factually inaccurate on many of the other things stated in this post, too.

[Lee Chowaniec]

Another lie, Lee.

I never wrote ‘she deserves it and no taxpayer is hurt’ and you know it!

I wrote she earned it and it does not bother me at all.

You're twisting in the wind once more, Lee Chowaniec.

And I thought Zarbo the Clown was bad.

LOL



Oh, not in the same retirement system and you already have diagnosed me as plain nuts!!!

Semantics and nothing more. If my punctuation marks confused you then let me be clear that I was not quoting you but attempting to highlight the meaning of the words I used. My bad.

I agreed with you in earlier posts that Coleman was entitled to her pension because it is the system that has been legally put in place. She is doing nothing wrong in following the process she is taking.

That does not mean that it is considered unethical and no longer sustainable.

When you say that it doesn’t bother you it implies that those taxpayers who have no retirement system should just suck up the costs for those in the public sector who receive a much more generous compensation than those in the public sector; if they receive such benefit..

But you’re ok with that because you are enrolled in a pension system but not the same as Coleman - or so you say. It makes no sense to ask you if it is a public sector pension because your anonymity takes away from your credibility/integrity.

Do you actually LOL when writing all your BS posts?

You are truly a tool for the DEMS.

[4248]

Since you and your friends like to use Military as a example to excuse the Double Dip scheme _

Read this Official pay charts for 2016 have been released. The 2016 National Defense Authorization Act included a 1.3 percent increase in military pay for 2016. However, the law essentially froze the pay for paygrades O-7 and above at 2015 levels. The new military pay charts apply to active members of the Navy, Marines, Army, Air Force, and Coast Guard. To see the new charts, visit the Military.com Pay section. To calculate your pay based on your basic pay, COLA and other factors, use the Military.com Pay Calculator.
RELATED TOPICS
Military Pay Military Pay Calculator

http://www.military.com/benefits/mil...ay-charts.html

Shame on you !

Also the average soldier will collect $2500.00 a month for retirement pay !

[4248]

Heres another purposely misleading quote from Breezy "At least you'll be happy to know that most new hires in "government" will have to pay 100% of their health care in retirement and pension benefits for them also have been reduced" End quote.

Now look at what factually happened here and who caused the changes.

First the same Politicians who point the finger at "workers/employees" - when they tell people, "The cost of employees pensions and benefits are driving up taxes" - "We have no choice but to raise taxes its all mandated" -

So they are blaming the legislation they and other Politicians created - such as unfunded mandates and benefits and pensions squarely on the Unions/workers ! But not admitting they get the same and better perks and salaries.

Then they create new legislation and negotiate with Unions to close the door on future workers/employees once they them selves cash out first. Yet they blame those moves on their unsuccessful opponents - while dragging to tax payers - "We saved you millions down the road" !

What they forget to tell the tax payers and workers - we still get ours and you will continue to pay for it !

Now while their playing both sides of the fence and smiling at you - they are quietly "Double Dipping" - as well as collecting multiple tax funded pay checks some from two, three or more tax funded positions/titles and stipends to stack their pockets and pension numbers !

Then like in todays article quoting Madam Town Clerk (Double Dip) Johanna Coleman Metz - “Getting the contracts ratified is a top priority,” Coleman said. “It’ll be a matter of give and take with the unions. No one will be made perfectly happy with it. Health insurance will be a big player. You’re negotiating a healthy contract if there’s a little pain for everyone.”

So now that the High Ranking Police Admin cut their private deal recently made public that limits their "Pain" separate from the rest of the Employees .

She has locked her costs in by her guaranteed retirement "Double Dip Scheme" - she and her helpers will tell everyone else, "We have to tighten our belts - we all have to give a little - you have to share the pain"

Once again, they got theirs - so they will tell others they have to close the door on them !

Who is playin whom ?

The taxpayers will be represented well - as Supervisor Giza stated. But they wont change anything !

The Unions will be treated well - but not equally !

[Save Us]

My take was that maybe Beans and Franks was appropriately pointing out the hypocrisy of Save Us using a Army photo for his avatar while bashing government expenses when military retirees and veterans have lifetime pensions/health care, and certainly warranted of course. He was clearly NOT comparing them to political types, as you imply.

Save Us interestingly did not even answer the question of his own military service. It's almost like he's using the Army photo to make himself look hard, if he has no service. Just saying.




4248, I guess I'd say you're actually improving in your spelling of late.

You're not there yet, but please keep up the good work.

Here's a tip, though, on the above:

"What they're doing is showing their entitlement beliefs"

LOL

I can see that reading comprehension, statistics and making friends are not your strong suits.

So in case your meds haven't kicked in, I'll point some things out maybe you missed in my previous posts, so next time when you respond you'll appear less stupid.

Where did I disparage the military? I said I was in favor of a strong military. Nobody asked me if I was a vet, they said they hoped that I was not a vet.
I said that public service needed to be commensurate in salary and benefits with the public they serve, and unless you live in a bubble or are a government hack you would understand that national statistics often apply to those of us that live somewhere on planet earth.. even Lancaster, if not now then eventually. Maybe you have never lived anywhere else, I have and our taxes are absurd. I won't bother to repeat my posts you can just re-read them when you are lucid.

It's not looking too good from where I stand, maybe it's not where your standing it's a matter of where your head is.

Oh since you fixated on the avatar, I can put an F4 which is pretty bad-ass, if you please.

[WNYresident]

Heres another purposely misleading quote from Breezy "At least you'll be happy to know that most new hires in "government" will have to pay 100% of their health care in retirement and pension benefits for them also have been reduced" End quote.

We need to stop "Grandfathering" of costly practices. Comments like "At least you'll be happy to know that most new hires in "government" will have to pay 100% of their health" have no bearing on why are property tax is one of the HIGHEST in the nation.

Don't even negotiate with the word "percentage" any longer. Freeze health care cost as the current amount. Any cost increases/decreases will be the responsibility of the employee and all elected officials. Can't get any simpler than that. It will also make budgeting easier because you are working with a fixed cost.

Seeing our employees get automatic pay raises almost every year (the majority) they can use that raise to cover the cost increases of their health insurance.

Only employees (I'm generalizing) that should get real good health care coverage are firemen. They proactively run straight into danger to rescue people in burning structures. They proactively climb on burning structures including directly going into a burning structures to rescue people. You can not get more proactive than that. THIS doesn't mean someone working a desk job for the fire department should get the same top notch healthcare insurance the fire fighter gets. Someone's nephew who got appointed to push papers will not be facing the same danger an active fire fighter would face.

[Breezy]

I can see that reading comprehension, statistics and making friends are not your strong suits.

So in case your meds haven't kicked in, I'll point some things out maybe you missed in my previous posts, so next time when you respond you'll appear less stupid.

Where did I disparage the military? I said I was in favor of a strong military. Nobody asked me if I was a vet, they said they hoped that I was not a vet.
I said that public service needed to be commensurate in salary and benefits with the public they serve, and unless you live in a bubble or are a government hack you would understand that national statistics often apply to those of us that live somewhere on planet earth.. even Lancaster, if not now then eventually. Maybe you have never lived anywhere else, I have and our taxes are absurd. I won't bother to repeat my posts you can just re-read them when you are lucid.

It's not looking too good from where I stand, maybe it's not where your standing it's a matter of where your head is.

Oh since you fixated on the avatar, I can put an F4 which is pretty bad-ass, if you please.

You were called out as a hypocrite, and no one said you disparaged the military. Where did that come from?

And of course public sector employee benefits are "not looking too good from where I stand." Would I expect anything else? No.

Your ilk can't help themselves in scapegoating these good people.

[Breezy]

We need to stop "Grandfathering" of costly practices. Comments like "At least you'll be happy to know that most new hires in "government" will have to pay 100% of their health" have no bearing on why are property tax is one of the HIGHEST in the nation.

Don't even negotiate with the word "percentage" any longer. Freeze health care cost as the current amount. Any cost increases/decreases will be the responsibility of the employee and all elected officials. Can't get any simpler than that. It will also make budAnd thgeting easier because you are working with a fixed cost.

Seeing our employees get automatic pay raises almost every year (the majority) they can use that raise to cover the cost increases of their health insurance.

Only employees (I'm generalizing) that should get real good health care coverage are firemen. They proactively run straight into danger to rescue people in burning structures. They proactively climb on burning structures including directly going into a burning structures to rescue people. You can not get more proactive than that. THIS doesn't mean someone working a desk job for the fire department should get the same top notch healthcare insurance the fire fighter gets. Someone's nephew who got appointed to push papers will not be facing the same danger an active fire fighter would face.

Tell that to the public employees gunned down by the latest maniac with a weapon of mass destruction.

Or the employee who picks up TB from assisting a resident with the illness.

Or the long-term employee who is diagnosed with cancer.

Or a public school teacher attacked by an out-of-control student(s).

Please!

"Any cost increases/decreases will be the responsibility of the employee." Man, that's a pathetic statement, Sir, too.

And the comment of mine: "At least you'll be happy to know that most new hires in "government" will have to pay 100% of their health" results in LOWER costs to government, as these folks pay 100% of their health insurance. I would think you would support that concept.

You must have woken on the wrong side of the bed with this post!!!!!

Barbaric to say the least.

Hopefully this post was just trolling, AGAIN.

[Save Us]

You were called out as a hypocrite, and no one said you disparaged the military. Where did that come from?

And of course public sector employee benefits are "not looking too good from where I stand." Would I expect anything else? No.

Your ilk can't help themselves in scapegoating these good people.

What is hypocritical about my posts? Or is this all you have when somebody throws facts and statistics in your face? Do we have any middle class in Lancaster? Are they insulated from real world economics, or is that just for the government worker?

I know it's painful to think about these things and ask questions, but.......... Public service has become an oxymoron.

[Save Us]

Tell that to the public employees gunned down by the latest maniac with a weapon of mass destruction.

Or the employee who picks up TB from assisting a resident with the illness.

Or the long-term employee who is diagnosed with cancer.

Or a public school teacher attacked by an out-of-control student(s).

Please!

"Any cost increases/decreases will be the responsibility of the employee." Man, that's a pathetic statement, Sir, too.

And the comment of mine: "At least you'll be happy to know that most new hires in "government" will have to pay 100% of their health" results in LOWER costs to government, as these folks pay 100% of their health insurance. I would think you would support that concept.

You must have woken on the wrong side of the bed with this post!!!!!

Barbaric to say the least.

Hopefully this post was just trolling, AGAIN.

Tell that to the average middle class person that hasn't had an increase in realized income in over a decade and who's net worth has actually dropped in as much time, or who have no guarantees of a job if they can find one, much less a guaranteed raise, or benefits. . They don't have strife, and work related tragedy???? are you freakin serious? Enjoy life on cloud Coo coo land! Barbaric? Exaggerate much?

[shortstuff]

Tell that to the average middle class person that hasn't had an increase in realized income in over a decade and who's net worth has actually dropped in as much time, or who have no guarantees of a job if they can find one, much less a guaranteed raise, or benefits. . They don't have strife, and work related tragedy???? are you freakin serious? Enjoy life on cloud Coo coo land! Barbaric? Exaggerate much?

Save Us, this guy/gal is an extremist. There is no rational dialog that can exist with this type of mindset. The more he insults, the more the person he is insulting is "generally" spot on.

[21BFD]

We need to stop "Grandfathering" of costly practices. Comments like "At least you'll be happy to know that most new hires in "government" will have to pay 100% of their health" have no bearing on why are property tax is one of the HIGHEST in the nation.

Don't even negotiate with the word "percentage" any longer. Freeze health care cost as the current amount. Any cost increases/decreases will be the responsibility of the employee and all elected officials. Can't get any simpler than that. It will also make budgeting easier because you are working with a fixed cost.

Seeing our employees get automatic pay raises almost every year (the majority) they can use that raise to cover the cost increases of their health insurance.

Only employees (I'm generalizing) that should get real good health care coverage are firemen. They proactively run straight into danger to rescue people in burning structures. They proactively climb on burning structures including directly going into a burning structures to rescue people. You can not get more proactive than that. THIS doesn't mean someone working a desk job for the fire department should get the same top notch healthcare insurance the fire fighter gets. Someone's nephew who got appointed to push papers will not be facing the same danger an active fire fighter would face.

Your comments are thoughtful, and reflect the real need to change the system. However, the real cost to government( and therefore to taxpayers) isn't as much due to the pensions as it is to abuse of the entire benefit system. For example, when a free loader games the system to collect his fire department salary for YEARS while feigning an injury, that sucks the $$ out of a system designed to help the truly injured. Fire fighters do not need better health insurance than others because if they are injured on the job, the municipality pays the entire cost of all health services, without regard to the health insurance they possess.

Most firefighters are honest, hardworking and courageous people, and they deserve all the worker comp benefits to which they are entitled , and then there are those few who have learned how to game the system from the very best - right, RICK??????...

So, to truly "Clean it up"......... deal with the abuse caused by the phonies out there......
the other firefighter in the house would have mixed feelings about that:

A. on one hand, they would be thrilled to see a guy like that being stopped from gaming the system
B. on the other hand - they'd be sad to have him come back to the house and destroy the brotherhood that is so important....

I mean, can you REALLY blame them for not wanting a guy like that "having their backs"????

?