Reason 567: Why Buffalo can't have good schools -

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

It's because the Buffalo News is a garbage newspaper with pathetic reporters.

So Tiffany Lankes, who is the education 'reporter' for the BN posted this gem today. Buffalo’s per-student spending is 5th in U.S.


She goes about as deep as a puddle in her research and really just posts a bunch of useless quotes without supplemental information. Two that stood out to me:

Buffalo School Board President James M. Sampson:

“I would just say that many of us have always questioned the return on investment,” ..... “I think the real question is not how much do you spend per student, but how much do you spend in the classroom.”

Buffalo Teachers Federation President Philip Rumore:

“We’re $20,000 behind everyone else, so it’s not our salaries driving the expenses,”

Both of these quotes are talking about the same issue but Tiffany could not be bothered to provide some additional information. The BPS budget is made public each year. It takes just a bit of time to look at where the money is being spent.

Rumore is very crafty with his words. Notice how he said Salaries and not Compensation? A large part of the costs to the BPS budget go to items of compensation like pension and benefits payments. To idiots in a union, they view their salary and not compensation as a benchmark. To anyone with an ounce of unbiased common sense, you look at the total compensation. It's been done here on Speakup many times. A ridiculous high % of the total BPS budget goes to pension and benefit payments. This is the answer to the 'how much do you spend in the classroom' question that Sampson does not have the guts to provide on the record.

There are other costs as well. Administration and Operation costs are excessive as well. But until the local newspaper can find 'reporters' worth a damn and who are willing to spend a couple of hours on research, nothing is going to improve because 95% of the people in Buffalo are not going to do the research on their own either.

[Genoobie]

Although I agree that the "news" is garbage, you haven't done your research either. Buffalo has a tremendously high special ed enrollment with 6:1:1 and 12:1:1 classrooms abounding while some teach 140-150 kids. That's the real reason per-pupil spending far outstrips other districts. Parents believe that their kids are going to get extra services and maybe there's some SSI benefit too, but the point is YOU didn't do your research. I guess that makes you like the other 95%. Retiree benefits in Buffalo are not really different than other districts. So go do some RESEARCH.

[WNYresident]

what are the ratios?

6:1:1 and 12:1:1

1 special education child per 6 or 12 non-special education children?

Lefty is correct with this:

Rumore is very crafty with his words. Notice how he said Salaries and not Compensation? A large part of the costs to the BPS budget go to items of compensation like pension and benefits payments. To idiots in a union, they view their salary and not compensation as a benchmark. To anyone with an ounce of unbiased common sense, you look at the total compensation. It's been done here on Speakup many times. A ridiculous high % of the total BPS budget goes to pension and benefit payments. This is the answer to the 'how much do you spend in the classroom' question that Sampson does not have the guts to provide on the record.

You are stating a fact but that fact has nothing to do with Lefty's statement.

[Genoobie]

what are the ratios?

6:1:1 and 12:1:1

1 special education child per 6 or 12 non-special education children?

Lefty is correct with this:

You are stating a fact but that fact has nothing to do with Lefty's statement.

6:1:1 is 6 students to 1 teacher and 1 aide, 12:1:1 is the same. No, Lefty is wrong because that exists for every district and Buffalo is not excessive in this regard. The high per pupil cost is principally due to special education. Turns out, special education doesn't really work to improve the educational outcomes (as measured by standardized tests) of most classified students. However, nor does most teaching. The "good" scores and "bad" scores are minimally impacted by teachers. Teachers in suburban districts are simply lucky to have students who test well, urban ones, not so much.

Medical is about a $125M budget item. Large, yes. Funny, no public outcry on how this expense rises at 10%+ / year. However, better compensation package than other districts, not really. Teachers in the surrounding area contribute something one the order of $1.5K or so of their healthcare costs. Furthermore, BPS final average salary is lower therefore pension payments are lower than surrounding districts. The healthcare for retirees offsets this a bit but not fully. Put it this way, I would take any suburban contract over the one I have now. BizFirst just ranked us at 90th out of 96 districts salary.

I say, play fair, take an average of all the adjoining districts, length of day, year, etc., take their total compensation, divide this up over however many steps it will take to reach top salary. Better yet, increase new teacher pay, decrease veteran teacher pay, even out the scale so there's no incentive to dismiss veteran teachers then eliminate tenure (because it only exists in namesake anyhow and it gives stupid people who don't understand anything an invalid talking point). Reformulate pension benefits to reflect today's structure with the new schedule. Slash special education, put that money into innovative programs / family support.
Split Buffalo into 5 or 6 districts and merge them with surrounding areas. Cut admin costs. Change the metrics of "success" and "failure" to create incentives for shrinking suburban districts (W.Sen, Cheek, Ton, Amh, etc.) so that they aren't "punished" by poor test scores (which ultimately reflects more than the schools can remedy).

[WNYresident]

6:1:1 is 6 students to 1 teacher and 1 aide, 12:1:1 is the same.

When I was in school I remember more kids in the classroom than 6 or 12

Or do you mean there are classes of just special education children that are 6 or 12 to a class room?

When I went to school 43 there were more like 25 kids in a class. I don't know how many special ed children were in school 43 in the 70's.

Why the increase of special ed children?

[Genoobie]

When I was in school I remember more kids in the classroom than 6 or 12

Or do you mean there are classes of just special education children that are 6 or 12 to a class room?

When I went to school 43 there were more like 25 kids in a class. I don't know how many special ed children were in school 43 in the 70's.

Why the increase of special ed children?

Yes, special education classes have 6 or 12 students in them. Sometimes you have teachers "co-teaching" with just one or two special education students in a class of general education students. More often than not these special education teachers cannot do the upper level math and science coursework that they are trying to help their students with.

The remaining classes suffer with 30 or more because they are not "special education". It was determined that special education students need additional resources. Frankly, it's partly because of the meteoric rise of testing and teaching to the test that has caused this situation. There are kids who cannot sit still for 90 minutes at a stretch as the teachers go through test-prep. As a result, those students that make this process difficult for teachers to accomplish are likely labeled "special education". Oftentimes, the kids that are diagnosed are the poorest kids that come from the poorest educational environments. For a variety of reasons they are not prepared for a traditional classroom.

Change the metric of how "success" is measured, i.e. not on a test, and you will see kids flourish. The special education classification will fall and kids can be kids again, instead of test-prep robots. Look at some of the most successful private schools, no Regents requirements for graduation, and all kinds of freedoms. Why do you think parents pay $20K for Nichols and $12K for Canisius? There's no "accountability" in these schools as there are in the public schools with Regents exams and 3-8 testing. There are a number of reasons why this is the way it is but this is the wrong way to pursue education.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

The high per pupil cost is principally due to special education.

First off, I was not making a comparison to schools.

Here are the factual statements I made.

1. A large part of the costs to the BPS budget go to items of compensation like pension and benefits payments. - 23.6% is large.
2. To idiots in a union, they view their salary and not compensation as a benchmark. To anyone with an ounce of unbiased common sense, you look at the total compensation. - This is pretty simple.
3. A ridiculous high % of the total BPS budget goes to pension and benefit payments. - This is also true. It also has nothing to do with other schools.

Secondly, here are the specifics from the BPS budget I was able to look up in less than 2 minutes.



Pension Compensation, Employee Health Insurance, Retiree Health Insurance and 'Other' Employee Benefits make up 23.6% of the budget expenditures. These are a part of compensation.

Now the BPS budget words salary or wages as compensation as a separate line item, which is disingenuous and when you factor in both, it's 53.8% of the budget.




But if you do want to make some comparisons of district to district...that's fine.

Williamsville actually spends more on benefits than Buffalo. Williamsville is at 24.57% while Buffalo is at 23.6%.

But again, these districts are not the same. Let's look at revenue.....

65.18% of the revenue for Williamsville comes from property taxes. That's a total of $113,384,600. By comparison, only 8.7% of the revenue for Buffalo comes from Property Taxes for a total of $70,300,000.

So if the Buffalo Public Schools want to go apple to apple with the Williamsville Schools...how about the Teachers Union go public with their support to tax properties at the same rate? You want more money? Go get it from the homeowners in the COB.


Take this home at 260 Middlesex Rd, Buffalo, NY 14216. It pays a whopping $1,737.00 in property taxes. If that home were in the Williamsville Schools it would pay around $6,949.00 in property taxes.

So until the teachers union has the balls to tell people in Buffalo to pay full freight on property taxes so they can get more money...STFU.

[nogods]

As everyone knows, if just pay the same players on the team more, they'll go from failure to Super Bowl, just like if you just pay more to the teachers who have proven they can't teach the kids they have, the BPS will magically go from failure to success.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

As everyone knows, if just pay the same players on the team more, they'll go from failure to Super Bowl, just like if you just pay more to the teachers who have proven they can't teach the kids they have, the BPS will magically go from failure to success.

But it's for the kids.

[WNYresident]

As everyone knows, if just pay the same players on the team more, they'll go from failure to Super Bowl, just like if you just pay more to the teachers who have proven they can't teach the kids they have, the BPS will magically go from failure to success.

This is one reason why pay raises in any town, county or state should not be based on amount of time worked.

[Genoobie]

First off, I was not making a comparison to schools.

Here are the factual statements I made.

1. A large part of the costs to the BPS budget go to items of compensation like pension and benefits payments. - 23.6% is large.
2. To idiots in a union, they view their salary and not compensation as a benchmark. To anyone with an ounce of unbiased common sense, you look at the total compensation. - This is pretty simple.
3. A ridiculous high % of the total BPS budget goes to pension and benefit payments. - This is also true. It also has nothing to do with other schools.

Secondly, here are the specifics from the BPS budget I was able to look up in less than 2 minutes.



Pension Compensation, Employee Health Insurance, Retiree Health Insurance and 'Other' Employee Benefits make up 23.6% of the budget expenditures. These are a part of compensation.

Now the BPS budget words salary or wages as compensation as a separate line item, which is disingenuous and when you factor in both, it's 53.8% of the budget.




But if you do want to make some comparisons of district to district...that's fine.

Williamsville actually spends more on benefits than Buffalo. Williamsville is at 24.57% while Buffalo is at 23.6%.

But again, these districts are not the same. Let's look at revenue.....

65.18% of the revenue for Williamsville comes from property taxes. That's a total of $113,384,600. By comparison, only 8.7% of the revenue for Buffalo comes from Property Taxes for a total of $70,300,000.

So if the Buffalo Public Schools want to go apple to apple with the Williamsville Schools...how about the Teachers Union go public with their support to tax properties at the same rate? You want more money? Go get it from the homeowners in the COB.


Take this home at 260 Middlesex Rd, Buffalo, NY 14216. It pays a whopping $1,737.00 in property taxes. If that home were in the Williamsville Schools it would pay around $6,949.00 in property taxes.

So until the teachers union has the balls to tell people in Buffalo to pay full freight on property taxes so they can get more money...STFU.

What is that $35M in "other" benefits? Mandated unemployment insurance? Like that kind of "benefit"?
Funny, but people who have trouble clicking a mouse who complain all the time about their "fair share" don't scroll down to see that the taxes in '05 were $10.6K. Your mouse has two buttons you know... I don't know why the taxes dropped $8K. My guess? Political connections. My $100K house in Buffalo pays $2400 in taxes. That's comparable to most burbs. City cannot levy their own school tax, but I guess you don't read the law much either.
In the 2015-2016 year the pension contribution dropped to $34M. But I guess you'd have to r-e-a-d s-l-o-w-l-y to get that too. In the same time health care costs rose $10M. Seems like people ought to suggest that health care providers reign in their costs...
No outcry there though, right Lefty? Just those overpaid, underworked teachers...

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

What is that $35M in "other" benefits? Mandated unemployment insurance? Like that kind of "benefit"?

Yes you *******. It's a compensation benefit. Unemployment insurance is a component of compensation.

[QUOTE=Genoobie;1545356]Funny, but people who have trouble clicking a mouse who complain all the time about their "fair share" don't scroll down to see that the taxes in '05 were $10.6K. Your mouse has two buttons you know... I don't know why the taxes dropped $8K. My guess? Political connections.

Speaking of clicks, it takes just a couple to click on the home to the left and the right. All 3 had the tax rate drop about 10 years ago.

My $100K house in Buffalo pays $2400 in taxes. That's comparable to most burbs.

City cannot levy their own school tax, but I guess you don't read the law much either.

This is why I said the teachers union needed to speak up on the issue. Your union has gotten many laws written for its advantage...why not have the balls to press for this change?

In the 2015-2016 year the pension contribution dropped to $34M. But I guess you'd have to r-e-a-d s-l-o-w-l-y to get that too. In the same time health care costs rose $10M. Seems like people ought to suggest that health care providers reign in their costs...No outcry there though, right Lefty? Just those overpaid, underworked teachers...

In case you were too busy failing at your job, they just added millions of people to the health care system and guess what? We all have to pick up the tab on that you twit. Everyones heath insurance went up.

[grump]

Although I agree that the "news" is garbage, you haven't done your research either. Buffalo has a tremendously high special ed enrollment with 6:1:1 and 12:1:1 classrooms abounding while some teach 140-150 kids. That's the real reason per-pupil spending far outstrips other districts. Parents believe that their kids are going to get extra services and maybe there's some SSI benefit too, but the point is YOU didn't do your research. I guess that makes you like the other 95%. Retiree benefits in Buffalo are not really different than other districts. So go do some RESEARCH.

Of course the BPS have a large number of "special Ed" students. The reason is simple: either minorities are disproportionately suffering from learning disabilities and anyone who suggested this would quickly be labeled as racist or teachers routinely assign discipline problems as special needs to get them out of their classrooms. The latter practice became so prevalent in the 90's that the Patski admin limited special Ed aid on a formula basis because certain school districts were assigning ever increasing numbers of students to special Ed to get them out of regular classrooms so that teachers no longer had to discipline them. I don't entire blame teachers for this tactic. As school superintendents, with the connivance of lawyers, pta's and idiot judges, made discipline ever more difficult and costly schools were left with little choice. The other option would have led to classrooms even more chaotic than those that currently exist in your average urban public schools.