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Thread: Yahoo’s sky-high subsidies

  1. #1
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    Yahoo’s sky-high subsidies

    Yahoo’s sky-high subsidies

    Everyone in these parts has heard of the Buffalo Billion. Overlooked is another government subsidy program that could be called the Lockport Half-Billion.
    By any standard, the incentives granted Yahoo to build a data and call center in Lockport are generous.Consider that the Yahoo subsidies:
    • Will cost up to $478 million to build a single facility that employs 200 people. The Buffalo Billion, by comparison, will finance the construction of three major facilities projected to create some 3,750 jobs and underwrite several dozen smaller projects.


    • Work out to $2.4 million per job – an “astronomical” figure in the words of one local economic development official. That compares with around $39,000 per job for a GEICO call center in Amherst that was the recipient of about $110 million in subsidies nearly a decade ago, which was considered a generous deal at the time.


    • Have not promoted other technology firms to locate in and around Lockport, as officials had projected when Yahoo’s data center opened in 2010. What’s more, Moreover, fewer than half of Yahoo employees hired during the first phase of the project live in Niagara County.
    http://www.investigativepost.org/201...igh-subsidies/



    Holy crap... I'm in the wrong business. I have to start up an IDA!!!!

    The IDA that brokered this deal made themselves over $1,000,000 according to this report on Channel 2

  2. #2
    Member sharky's Avatar
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    I don't have details but yahoo has recently laid off a lot of people
    Vote for freedom, not political parties.
    Politicians need to cut spending

  3. #3
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    Said Kinyon at the IDA: “We’re hopeful that there still may be a Phase Three project down the road.”
    You better believe he's hopeful.

    NO deals, NO paychecks. Right? Now forgive me if the people who work at IDA's are all volunteer based.

  4. #4
    Member leftWNYbecauseofBS's Avatar
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    These projects are not the same. Why is it so hard for people to grasp this! Seriously.

    The whole 'you paid for it' does nothing but feed the morons.

    Let's go to school kids...


    Tax Breaks are not TAX FREE - A tax break is reducing the amount of taxes on an investment. Example: If company X spends $100M, we will not force them to pay $20M of $30M in taxes for Y number of years. In this example, the $100M is private money and the area still gets $10M in taxes.

    Public Investment = Public money going to something in return for something larger to happen. Example: If the State spends $500M to build something, Company X will come and spend $1B of their own money.

    One puts public money up front and the other puts private money up front. HUGE difference.


    Yahoo

    They built a plant and invested money. In return, they get a break on taxes. In this case $500M. What is the worst that can happen here? They walk away from the data center and their investment and/or they do not do what they promised regarding promotion. But at the end of the day a massive data center was built.

    SolarCity

    NYS is building a plant and purchasing equipment. In return, SolarCity will move operations here and invest their own money. THIS IS DIFFERENT. What's the worst that can happen here? SolarCity walks away from the deal and NYS now owns a plant and equipment to build solar panels without a company to run it.


    It's basic common sense that these are two completely different deals. The risk for SolarCity is significantly greater than Yahoo. The SolarCity deal actually spends tax dollars. The Yahoo deal does not. It's that simple.

    People can critique the merits of each deal on their own but to compare them as the same is stupid.

  5. #5
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    They built a plant and invested money. In return, they get a break on taxes. In this case $500M. What is the worst that can happen here? They walk away from the data center and their investment and/or they do not do what they promised regarding promotion. But at the end of the day a massive data center was built.
    How does that help the family living in WNY except for the small group of people who worked at the data center? I understand a company built the place but in the end how does that help a family in WNY who has no attachment to the structure/business?

    I don't necessarily disagree with this but the one issue everyone faces in NYS/WNY are high taxes. Giving one business massive take breaks doesn't relieve the one issue all other businesses face. High Taxes.

    Where is the logic in spending $500,000,000 with one company to create 500 jobs while countless other jobs leave the area because of high taxation is most cases?

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    Targeted tax breaks increase Albany's bureaucratic power...
    ...much more efficient to reduce all tax rates instead of the companies that have the capital to lobby Albany.

    As for SolarCity:
    SCTY used Cuomo's gift (money is fungible) to purchase bankrupted Solyndra's 200,000 square foot factory...
    SCTY has already started to shift manufacturing to their Hangzhou, China factory to reduce costs...

    Good luck in your hopes of a solar panel installer manufacturing panels under Buffalo's "fair wage" laws.

  7. #7
    Member leftWNYbecauseofBS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WNYresident View Post
    How does that help the family living in WNY except for the small group of people who worked at the data center? I understand a company built the place but in the end how does that help a family in WNY who has no attachment to the structure/business?
    That's not even relevant. The data center has done nothing negative to those families. Every. Single. Penny. of this project is a 100% gain. Here is the site from 2006




    So even if the data center supplied just 1 job and paid $100 in taxes...it's a gain.


    Quote Originally Posted by WNYresident View Post
    I don't necessarily disagree with this but the one issue everyone faces in NYS/WNY are high taxes. Giving one business massive take breaks doesn't relieve the one issue all other businesses face. High Taxes.
    You're wrong.

    In the short term, Tax Breaks have no relevancy to high taxes. If IDAs were removed today...your high taxes would be the same.

    In the long term, the things that IDAs give tax breaks to do lower taxes. The projects eventually land on the tax rolls and pay full freight and even before they pay full rate they pay more than what was previously there.

    It's always a gain.

    Quote Originally Posted by WNYresident View Post
    Where is the logic in spending $500,000,000 with one company to create 500 jobs while countless other jobs leave the area because of high taxation is most cases?
    $500,000,000 IS NOT BEING SPENT!

    $500,000,000 in taxes that could have been collected on a development project is not being collected. They are not the same.

    Yahoo has spent $320,000,000 on the facility. I don't care if they ever pay a penny in taxes. That's a lot of money that has gone into the LOCAL economy.


    =====

    If you really want to change the business climate...the last thing any reasonable and informed person would do is complain about an agency that's sole purpose to to bring in more business. If you want to lower taxes the odds are better when you have more companies, both to spread out the cost and to petition elected officials.


    Don't take this the wrong way but I think 99.99999999% of the issues people have with IDA breaks is nothing more than envy.

  8. #8
    Member gorja's Avatar
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    The Lancaster IDA just gave sales tax and mortgage tax breaks for market rate senior apartments creating 7 jobs. Is that creating business?

    Georgia L Schlager

  9. #9
    Member leftWNYbecauseofBS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gorja View Post
    The Lancaster IDA just gave sales tax and mortgage tax breaks for market rate senior apartments creating 7 jobs. Is that creating business?

    Nice of you to leave out the details....Let me un-frame your point.

    It was $484,000 in tax breaks (sales and mortgage recording) for a $12.6 million complex. The property will pay a $140,000 town parks and recreation fee and property taxes. Considerable property taxes from day 1.

    I think part of your problem is you have not bothered to learn what an IDA is there to do.


    The mission of the LIDA is to promote economic growth and development in the Lancaster, New York area. The LIDA assists qualified private sector industries and businesses by offering incentive programs to encourage the creation, expansion or relocation of businesses in our community.

    They are creating and developing in the town..to the tune of $12.6M. They will be paying a very large fee to the parks and considerable property taxes from day one. In exchange they get $484K in breaks. So unless you have a personal agenda...those breaks are exactly what the IDA is for.

    While there may only be 7 jobs at the facility, there will be economic impact to the town simply by having this complex there. Just where are they going to shop? The local grocery store. Where are they going to get prescriptions filled? The local drug store. Where are they going to eat out? Whatever place offers the senior special but it would be a local place.

    Like I said before, people are simply just envious...

  10. #10
    Member gorja's Avatar
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    To me, it's not my idea of a business. It's not a business manufacturing a product or providing a service. It's housing. Just my opinion.

    Georgia L Schlager

  11. #11
    Member leftWNYbecauseofBS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gorja View Post
    To me, it's not my idea of a business. It's not a business manufacturing a product or providing a service. It's housing. Just my opinion.
    First off, it's not housing. If it was just housing there would be 0 full time jobs associated. It's a business that provides housing and support services for it's residents. There is a difference.

    But my inference is you might have issue with it because you don't see it that way and why should those developers get breaks on their housing business when you don't get breaks on your home. Right?

    If you want to grow just businesses, don't concern yourself with what the IDA does. They have a clear message and they are doing when they were created to do. Maybe you should check out the local Chamber of Commerce or your local paid elected leadership. They are there to grow businesses.

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    [QUOTE=WNYresident;1534596]How does that help the family living in WNY except for the small group of people who worked at the data center? I understand a company built the place but in the end how does that help a family in WNY who has no attachment to the structure/business?

    I guess no business should ever move to town because it only helps the small group of people who work there. Well, it does help them at least. What is the employer supposed to do...stand out front every day and hand $$ to passers-by? And strange as it seems there are spinoff effects of a new business. Who knows...maybe the place has a crapper for the workers and the business will have to buy toilet paper and a bar of soap from a retailer. God Almighty!

  13. #13
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    Quote Originally Posted by grump View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by WNYresident View Post
    How does that help the family living in WNY except for the small group of people who worked at the data center? I understand a company built the place but in the end how does that help a family in WNY who has no attachment to the structure/business?
    I guess no business should ever move to town because it only helps the small group of people who work there. Well, it does help them at least. What is the employer supposed to do...stand out front every day and hand $$ to passers-by? And strange as it seems there are spinoff effects of a new business. Who knows...maybe the place has a crapper for the workers and the business will have to buy toilet paper and a bar of soap from a retailer. God Almighty!

    You missed my point. Businesses should want to move here but you shouldn't saddle pre existing businesses with high taxes to begin with.

    Why give one company a tax break to "create" jobs while leaving the rest of the businesses "losing" jobs when they leave the area because of high taxes etc.?

  14. #14
    Member leftWNYbecauseofBS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WNYresident View Post
    You missed my point. Businesses should want to move here but you shouldn't saddle pre existing businesses with high taxes to begin with.

    Why give one company a tax break to "create" jobs while leaving the rest of the businesses "losing" jobs when they leave the area because of high taxes etc.?

    Because that's what IDAs are for?

    IDAs are not designed to keep businesses. IDAs do not have a say in setting tax policy. IDAs do not have a say in how taxes are spent.

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