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Thread: What does Town Atty. Fenz do to earn $50,000 a year

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    What does Town Atty. Fenz do to earn $50,000 a year

    This weeks West Seneca Bee had an article by Town Atty. Fenz explaining to residents that the public does not have a right to speak at Town Board Meetings. Fenz a political appointee by Hart assumes the roll of. protecting the board from the public. Fenz should start earning his $50,000 a year salary. Why does the Town pay another law firm to represent our interest in the Seneca Mall project ? Why are we paying Fenz $50,000 a year This man 4 years removed from school sits at Town Board Meetings with a timer that rings after 4 minutes earning a town salary $50,000 plus benefits for part time work! I am tired of paying out tax dollars to friends or family of politician.

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    You answered your own question - " What does Town Atty. Fenz do to earn $50,000 a year"

    Here's the factual answer, "Fenz a political appointee by Hart assumes the roll of protecting the board from the public."


    That's a vary telling and misunderstood fact - The tax funded - Politically Appointed Town Attorney is installed to protect the Board.

    He's/she's there to insulate the Controlling members from taxpayers. Not to represent tax payers interests.

    The primary job is to give them advise on how to side step accountability and responsibility for their decisions. The most common question asked of the Town Attorney by those he represents is - can we be sued or held accountable ?

    Tax payers need to understand - the Town Attorney is a "Party Player" - he doesn't answer to taxpayers. You cant fire him - you cant control his pay or tax funded compensation - he keeps his own hours.(means he works when he wants).




    Sorry - but until voters demand the "Patronage systems change" - your stuck with this !
    #Dems play musical chairs + patronage and nepotism = entitlement !

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    Any responsible attorney gives his best advice to his client. Whether his client chooses to follow it is up to the client. I guess the town attorney wrote that there is no right to speak at a town board meeting. Is he wrong? If so, please provide some type of proof other than your outraged opinion...an opinion of the attorney general...something. For all you know he may not like it any more than you but he owes a duty to his client to advise them of the law...even law that he might disagree with personally. If you know his opinion is wrong present your proof. Otherwise, don't accuse him of being a stooge.

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    So you agree - his "client is the Board Members" -

    Regardless of the issue being discussed - he is hired because he will do/say what's good for the controlling Parties Agenda.

    Me thinks that equals - in your words "Stooge"
    #Dems play musical chairs + patronage and nepotism = entitlement !

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4248 View Post
    So you agree - his "client is the Board Members" -

    Regardless of the issue being discussed - he is hired because he will do/say what's good for the controlling Parties Agenda.

    Me thinks that equals - in your words "Stooge"
    I think his client is the corporate entity known as the town of West Seneca. nogods, if you're listening let me know on that. I dont believe his clients are the 44,000 people who live in town; otherwise who does he represent if there is a legal dispute among them? I don't know whether or not he adequately represents that client. Time will tell, I suppose.

    On another note, do you know that his opinion re speaking at town board meetings was wrong legally?

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    Unless the town board is conducting a public hearing, persons attending a public meeting of the board have no right to address the board without permission. 1957 NY Ops Atty Gen Aug 14 (informal).

    Except in certain situations, members of the public attending town board meetings are not entitled to participate in the proceedings. The public should ordinarily be permitted to attend regular town board meetings, but an executive session is an informal meeting from which the public may be excluded. 1963 Ops St Compt #64.

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    This is a great awakening for many tax payers - learn what your paying for !

    Heres your typical Lawyer double speak - slice and dice to not truly answer a direct question - "Who does the Town Attorney work for" - "Do tax payers have a right to speak at Public Board Meetings ?

    Quote Originally Posted by nogods View Post
    Unless the town board is conducting a public hearing, persons attending a public meeting of the board have no right to address the board without permission. 1957 NY Ops Atty Gen Aug 14 (informal). Notice he through in "Without permission" - so your elected tax funded official has the right to silence and ignore you. Although he sited a informal decision - I don't believe that's a legal decision - its more of a opinion of another tax funded/Party Controlled Group of Lawyers.

    Aren't all scheduled Town Board Meetings open to the Public(tax payers) - Yes or No.


    Except in certain situations, members of the public attending town board meetings are not entitled to participate in the proceedings. You see here where instead of - can the public speak at the meetings - he changes that to, " public attending town board meetings are not entitled to participate in the proceedings" -


    The public should ordinarily be permitted to attend regular town board meetings, but an executive session is an informal meeting from which the public may be excluded. 1963 Ops St Compt #64.
    Everyone knows "Executive sessions" are the Boards Legal Maneuver to shut out those they don't want to witness their doings. No one asked about that !

    The issue is and was - "Do tax payers have the right to address the Town Board at open Town Board Meetings - Yes or No -

    The other question of who the Town Attorney works for - I believe was answered - Your tax funded Party Appointed Town Attorney works for the Elected Officials.

    He does not represent the tax payers who pay him - his hours are his own - he works another full time job - his hours aren't tracked or verified - he does not care what tax payers want, he is there to protect and advise the other Elected Officials who also don't have to or want to hear from the tax payers who elected/funded/pay them.

    They are there to further their Party's agenda and control."
    #Dems play musical chairs + patronage and nepotism = entitlement !

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    4248, in another thread a few weeks ago, I said I would try to be nicer. But I gotta say sometimes your rants remind me of the way my kids acted when they were 4 and didn't get their way. At least you seem to grasp that the town attorney works for the town and not for the individual taxpayers. In many respects he is a corporate lawyer whose duty is to the corporation. What happens when there is dispute among the "corporate officers" of the town probably raises a host of legal ethics issues that I'm sure nogods could address better than any of us can. By the way how do you know Pontius Pilate was a lawyer?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4248 View Post
    Heres your typical Lawyer double speak - slice and dice to not truly answer a direct question - "Who does the Town Attorney work for" - "Do tax payers have a right to speak at Public Board Meetings ?



    Everyone knows "Executive sessions" are the Boards Legal Maneuver to shut out those they don't want to witness their doings. No one asked about that !

    The issue is and was - "Do tax payers have the right to address the Town Board at open Town Board Meetings - Yes or No -

    The other question of who the Town Attorney works for - I believe was answered - Your tax funded Party Appointed Town Attorney works for the Elected Officials.

    He does not represent the tax payers who pay him - his hours are his own - he works another full time job - his hours aren't tracked or verified - he does not care what tax payers want, he is there to protect and advise the other Elected Officials who also don't have to or want to hear from the tax payers who elected/funded/pay them.

    They are there to further their Party's agenda and control."
    Hey...here's an idea...challenge the rule in court...petition your state assembly person and senator to clarify the town law requiring question and answer period at each town meeting...get a majority of fellow citizens to elect local candidates who pledge to rescind the rule...

    Or you just continue the rants here.

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    Thanks for your observations - we do agree - "At least you seem to grasp that the town attorney works for the town and not for the individual taxpayers" - that explains his not being accountable to the tax payers or their requests. His first consideration is to protect the "Corporation's agenda/needs" in this case the "Corporation = Elected Officials -

    As far as your kids - maybe their smarter than you think - their arguments aren't clouded by your learned adopted reality - its simply based on right or wrong - try it !

    Tax payers deserve the truth - the truth is Party Players control our tax funded Government. Their Party influenced/tax funded lawyers help protect them from being accountable to us - the tax payers.

    Our tax dollars are actually used to further the Controlling Party's agendas - not the interests of the actual taxpayers. They minority is controlling the majority.

    The voters also are driven by their own agendas - usually Party formed - many are dependent on or are related to tax funded players. This is why the elections are a scam - they are driven by those who receive benefit from the results - mainly the patronage - contracts and land use control.

    Not the best interest of the tax payers - but the continual building of a bigger tax funded system. Now I get it - do you ?
    #Dems play musical chairs + patronage and nepotism = entitlement !

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    Quote Originally Posted by nogods View Post
    Hey...here's an idea...challenge the rule in court...petition your state assembly person and senator to clarify the town law requiring question and answer period at each town meeting...get a majority of fellow citizens to elect local candidates who pledge to rescind the rule...

    Or you just continue the rants here.
    OK - so you cant actually site where the elected officials have the right to stop tax payers from talking at Board Meetings !

    Why would I pay one of you - to argue in front of your like minded Party Players to give me/us the right to be heard at local Town Board Meetings.

    If tax payers had balls - Inform the Bufnews and other media sources when this will happen - I am sure they'll show up and report what they see and hear.

    Then load up a Board Meeting and just talk every time they had something to say. If the Board Members don't like it - they can throw them out - stop the meeting or what ever.

    Then when the public reads the story - the elected officials can explain why they feel tax payers have no right to be heard. They can explain why Elected Officials and their lawyers - all tax funded - can tell taxpayers their input and concerns are unwanted in their Tax Funded Town Hall !

    So once again your cover BS has failed you and you get all lippy - each day your bias and Party Agenda is made clearer - Thanks !

    Grump - do your own home work - I didn't at any time say I will be nicer to you ! I speak my mind and live what I say - I will not, nor do I want to fit into your world. I like the one I live in - Live Free or Die tryin ! But I respect others right to also be free - Speak Freely and believe in God anyway you wish - Enjoy !

    PS - ask Nogods about Pilate - Nogods was a altered Boy !
    Last edited by 4248; February 17th, 2015 at 02:56 PM.
    #Dems play musical chairs + patronage and nepotism = entitlement !

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4248 View Post
    OK - so you cant actually site where the elected officials have the right to stop tax payers from talking at Board Meetings !

    Why would I pay one of you - to argue in front of your like minded Party Players to give me/us the right to be heard at local Town Board Meetings.

    If tax payers had balls - Inform the Bufnews and other media sources when this will happen - I am sure they'll show up and report what they see and hear.

    Then load up a Board Meeting and just talk every time they had something to say. If the Board Members don't like it - they can throw them out - stop the meeting or what ever.

    Then when the public reads the story - the elected officials can explain why they feel tax payers have no right to be heard. They can explain why Elected Officials and their lawyers - all tax funded - can tell taxpayers their input and concerns are unwanted in their Tax Funded Town Hall !

    So once again your cover BS has failed you and you get all lippy - each day your bias and Party Agenda is made clearer - Thanks !

    Grump - do your own home work - I didn't at any time say I will be nicer to you ! I speak my mind and live what I say - I will not, nor do I want to fit into your world. I like the one I live in - Live Free or Die tryin ! But I respect others right to also be free - Speak Freely and believe in God anyway you wish - Enjoy !

    PS - ask Nogods about Pilate - Nogods was a altered Boy !
    First, I gave you to citations that are the only existing authority on the subject. sure, they are not final, but they are more valid then your adolescent belly aching.

    Second, I gave three ways to resolve the issue. Apparently you'd rather just yell "get off my lawn!" all day.

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    4248, you're right. That does explain the town attorneys duty of loyalty to his client. I guess if you don't like it that's too bad. Hire an attorney, go to the town board meetings and challenge the town attorneys decisions. You can spend a lot of time & $ on cases you will probably lose. If you hired an attorney and found out his loyalty went to someone other than you, you'd bleat like a freakin' lamb. Why can't the town expect loyalty from its attorney?. I've finally realized that you're just a dope. By the way, I don't give a sh* t what you think about me.

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    Oh - now you haven't hurt my feelings - we just agree the Tax Funded Town Attorney works for the Elected Officials ! Thanks !

    I can only hope that clears up the misconception that he works for the people who funded his salary - that's all !

    Why do you guys get so hostile ? Its how the system works to protect itself - I understand but many tax payers don't - now we helped them understand !

    Taxpayers have no right to be heard at Town Hall Meetings - Town Officials can deny them the right to speak at Town Hall Meetings.

    The tax funded attorney doesn't have to answer to nor does his job depend on the likes or dislikes of tax paying home owners - just Party Agenda and protection.

    Why do you all get so twisted over the truth - did I lie ? There is also a fourth choice a fifth choice and even a sixth choice tax payers have !

    Go to Town Hall Meetings - stand up and be heard.

    Actively Campaign against the Officials and their Party - that means no more writing checks to them or their Party.

    Yet a sixth choice - sit down and shut up !

    That's all I'm saying and that's what you all said - just you keep acting like I am attacking your way of life - why ? !
    #Dems play musical chairs + patronage and nepotism = entitlement !

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    4248, apparently you were the only one operating under a misconception about for whom the town attorney works. I wasn't; I explained it you. You seemed really surprised that the town attorney works for the town that hired him instead of some amorphous group of taxpayers.

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