Sheldon Silver, New York Assembly Speaker, Faces Arrest on Corruption Charges

[nogods]

Some of the government's claims seem a bit over the edge. If the government can prove he received referral fees in exchange for something he did in his official capacity (as it has alleged with regard to the doctor) then it might have a case.

But referral fees are a common tradition in law. Many years ago they were unethical in NYS. Lawyers could only split a fee in proportion to their work on a natter but that rule was so openly ignored (lawyers sued each other over referral fee agreements and one prominent referral fee lawyer even had a detailed referral fee schedule dependent on the type of case and who was funding the costs.)

The ethics rule was changed to allow division of fees without regard to proportion of work if "by a writing given the client, each lawyer assumes joint responsibility for the representation."

Thus, if silver was merely getting a referral fee and the client was given the required written notice of joint responsibility, then it doesn't matter that he did no work whatsoever for the fee - it is neither unethical nor a crime, and is in fact very common.

If, however, either the referral itself or the referral fee were in connection with some official capacity, then it could be either a violation of the honest service law or, if the circumstances are present, extortion.

But one lawyer getting paid for doing nothing other than referring a client to another is not a crime.

[Save Us]

Take his godda** pension.

I have been waiting years for this scumbag to get busted.

[grump]

Bruno was acquitted not because he was innocent of the crime when he was charged with it but because there was a change in law while his appeal on the verdict was pending: http://www.timesunion.com/local/arti...al-5486587.php

As I said the US attorney brought an action that was not supported in the law. While Bruno's appeal of his illegal conviction was pending someone else who had been illegally convicted got the law declared unconstitutional ( a proposition I might add that was recognized by anyone who took a serious look at the law) and Bruno was exonerated. The US attorney then tried Bruno again based on legal arguments that he had already said in the first trial were not supported by the evidence. Not surprisingly, Bruno was acquitted of those bogus charges which even the prosecuting attorney admitted had no factual basis. Perhaps that's why the jury was out less than an hour. But continue to live in your fantasy world where Bruno wasn't actually acquitted.

[grump]

Another way of looking at it...Bruno's conduct never was criminal and he was prosecuted under a "law" that superseded the bounds of the Constitution. The second trial was nothing but political payback.

[grump]

Some of the government's claims seem a bit over the edge. If the government can prove he received referral fees in exchange for something he did in his official capacity (as it has alleged with regard to the doctor) then it might have a case.

But referral fees are a common tradition in law. Many years ago they were unethical in NYS. Lawyers could only split a fee in proportion to their work on a natter but that rule was so openly ignored (lawyers sued each other over referral fee agreements and one prominent referral fee lawyer even had a detailed referral fee schedule dependent on the type of case and who was funding the costs.)

The ethics rule was changed to allow division of fees without regard to proportion of work if "by a writing given the client, each lawyer assumes joint responsibility for the representation."

Thus, if silver was merely getting a referral fee and the client was given the required written notice of joint responsibility, then it doesn't matter that he did no work whatsoever for the fee - it is neither unethical nor a crime, and is in fact very common.

If, however, either the referral itself or the referral fee were in connection with some official capacity, then it could be either a violation of the honest service law or, if the circumstances are present, extortion.

But one lawyer getting paid for doing nothing other than referring a client to another is not a crime.

You're an esq. and I suspect you're more knowledgable about this than most of us. I did see some flow chart reprinted from the NYT that claims to show how the scheme worked. That by itself certainly didn't seem to show criminality. Looked more like referral fees. Preet Bowwow has a reputation for trying to criminalize conduct that isn't. The afternoon edition of NY Post spoke about how Preet had used his success against Wall St as a base to launch his career a corruption buster. In the same on line edition there was an article about how all the cases he'd had reversed were undermining his credibility.

[NY The Vampire State]

This guy has been purposefully influencing what legislation can pass and what legislation can fail for the sole benefit of his own wallet. That is criminal behavior. Forget about referral fees and all this other bull****. The crime is that he controlled the legislation, and went against the will of the people for his personal gain.

When this guy hands out $500,000 in taxpayer money to a research lab who in return sends its patients to the law firm that happens to pay Silver a cut of every client that walks in the door, there is a huge problem there. The abuse of power by an elected official can never be tolerated. We might as well have a king.

[WNYresident]

I see how this is going to play out.

His lawyers will say they were referral fees and were paid as referral fees. Prove they weren't which you really can't. Play on words.

Bribes can be paid out as referral fees.

Apparently a lot of people in Albany make their living with referral fees.

I think in the end not much will be made of this.

[grump]

Vamp, how do you know the "will of the people"? Was there some public referendum or something that I missed that determined this popular will? I know that there are lots of people in NYS & my guess is there's lots of "wills of the people". Isn't the question whether or not he broke some law.

[NY The Vampire State]

Vamp, how do you know the "will of the people"? Was there some public referendum or something that I missed that determined this popular will? I know that there are lots of people in NYS & my guess is there's lots of "wills of the people". Isn't the question whether or not he broke some law.

Ummm... well take a look around. Doesn't look like anyone wanted their tax money to be used so that he could get kickbacks. Doesn't look like they wanted him to manipulate legislation for his own gain. Doesn't look like they appreciate Silver shooting down bills he doesn't like before they even reach the floor. Doesn't look like they wanted their own representatives to be bullied into voting the way Silver wants. Sheldon Silver is supposed to answer to the people, not to the ones who hand out the cash to him. Hint.. hint, that's going against the will of the people. Silver has always been the focus of bribery, conspiracy and thuggery. Have you been living under a rock? These things don't just come out of thin air.



Come on Grump, are you going to tell me there are people out there that want this to go on?

[grump]

So the question isn't whether he broke the law but whether he violated some popular will as defined by you.

[NY The Vampire State]

So the question isn't whether he broke the law but whether he violated some popular will as defined by you.

It would appear he's done both.

[4248]

This is a perfect example of the double standards in the laws.

They make all these laws and rules - they change then when one of their own gets entangled by them.

This is why lawyers rule the Political World we live in.

"Referral fees" - if these were Construction companies collecting money for "Referring jobs" to one another - its called "Bribery" and in some cases "Extortion"

But they are elected officials who are lawyers so its called "referral fees"

Is it "Legal" according to the law - probably - because the guy that wrote that law most likely got a referral fee!

Once again it shows how all these lawyers in Politics have written and rewritten laws to cover their own arses.


PS - there is also no doubt in my mind - before this is over - Nogods will be able to stand behind and excuse what Silver did !

[nogods]

This is a perfect example of the double standards in the laws.

They make all these laws and rules - they change then when one of their own gets entangled by them.

This is why lawyers rule the Political World we live in.

"Referral fees" - if these were Construction companies collecting money for "Referring jobs" to one another - its called "Bribery" and in some cases "Extortion"

But they are elected officials who are lawyers so its called "referral fees"

Is it "Legal" according to the law - probably - because the guy that wrote that law most likely got a referral fee!

Once again it shows how all these lawyers in Politics have written and rewritten laws to cover their own arses.


PS - there is also no doubt in my mind - before this is over - Nogods will be able to stand behind and excuse what Silver did !

Referral fees are common in all businesses - they are not bribes or illegal except where specifically prohibited by law (like in the case of doctors).

You must have have no real world experience in the business world to be so ignorant of a common business practice.

Maybe you should take this guys webinar before you flap your lips again:

Business Expert Webinars: How Much Should You Pay for Referral Fees?

Or perhaps education yourself reading a Business Week article:

"Most professions have a history or a precedent on how to treat referrals," Fairbrother says. "For some, it might be saying thank you with a percentage of the sale or a finder's fee, as it is in manufacturing sales, where one manufacturing representative might bring business to another manufacturing representative. For other professions, it might be a simple thank-you card with a $100 bill in it or a gift certificate to a nice restaurant." Mae Lon Ding, principal of Personnel Systems Associates in Anaheim, Calif., and former president of the Irvine (Calif.) trade group Association of Professional Consultants, says referral fees typically range from 5% to 20% of the value of the project.

Buisnessweek: Referral Etiquette for Consultants

Or perhaps you should ask California's largest restaurant brokage firm how they get away with it seeing as how you think it is illegal:
Referrals for Commercial and Residential Brokers

Restaurant Realty Company will pay a 20% referral fees to brokers that refer new seller clients to us. New seller client means the seller has not used us before to buy or sell a restaurant, and has not contacted us prior to the referral for an evaluation. Referral fees are only paid if and when a deal is completed and based on the amount that Restaurant Realty receives on the transaction. If we only represent the seller for example, and a buyer agent participates, you will only receive 20% of the seller side commission.

[WNYresident]

Referral fees are common in all businesses - they are not bribes or illegal except where specifically prohibited by law (like in the case of doctors).

You must have have no real world experience in the business world to be so ignorant of a common business practice.

So what I said went completely over your head.

[Genoobie]

I can only hope Cuomo ends up with him.