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Thread: Buffalo Bills Football Stadium location

  1. #31
    Member HipKat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortstuff View Post
    Keep the stadium exactly where it is, we already spent over a million of taxpayer dollars to update the stadium. I don't want to pay anymore tax dollars to build a stadium that costs that much!!!!!

    I believe if this is a serious discussion, then they need to put this decision to the taxpayers since we would foot the bill-- in a referendum.
    Great, and keep using your rotary dial phone and dial up internet.....
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  2. #32
    Member 300miles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by granpabob View Post
    genesee and transit where the Seneca were looking or down town Niagara falls are also good sights. convention center near the falls would work real good
    I don't think Genessee / Transit was an option.

    Niagara Falls was an option, but they ruled it out mostly because of transportation issues. The Grand Island bridges would need to be expanded or rebuilt, and other large road projects within the city would have added a big cost to the project.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by HipKat View Post
    Great, and keep using your rotary dial phone and dial up internet.....
    Your obsession with football prevents you from making rational thoughts about the stadium.
    Democrats & Republicans Suck Alike.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by HipKat View Post
    Great, and keep using your rotary dial phone and dial up internet.....
    $130 million plus isn't just a drop in the bucket or the difference between dial up and wireless. After just spending that amount of taxpayer money, are people really ready to nix that stadium and spend a billion more on a new one? Not me.

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  5. #35
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    I haven't yet heard a supportable reason for moving the stadium from Orchard Park. Romantic notions of "bringing people back to downtown" are silly. First, concentrating all major entertainment opportunities for a regional population into one small area is not good regional planning. Second, I haven't heard any compelling reasons as to why the stadium shouldn't stay in Orchard Park. What perceived problem will be solved by moving it out of Orchard Park? Traffic? Parking? Crime? Do the residents of Orchard Park want the stadium out of their town?

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by 300miles View Post
    There's one benefit I can think of from condensing sports complexes into one area, and that would be to share parking, otherwise not much.
    There are lots of things that can be shared like parking. Similar examples infrastructure and mass transit improvements that service the 'district'...

    But beyond this you have business opportunity that might not normally exist. You have 70+ Bison Games that draw about 8,000 people a game, 41+ Sabres games that draw about 18,000 a game and then you would add 8+ at 65,000. That could be the difference for a bar or a retailer.

    Then you have a very big reach but I know this market exists...the real estate investor. I know a handful of people who all purchased condos near Petco Park in San Diego because they were huge baseball fans and season ticket holders but did not like the drive home after the game. Could a Bills stadium next door to FNC be enough for the high end in WNY to justify a condo/apartment in the city? Possibly?

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by leftWNYbecauseofBS View Post
    There are lots of things that can be shared like parking. Similar examples infrastructure and mass transit improvements that service the 'district'...

    But beyond this you have business opportunity that might not normally exist. You have 70+ Bison Games that draw about 8,000 people a game, 41+ Sabres games that draw about 18,000 a game and then you would add 8+ at 65,000. That could be the difference for a bar or a retailer.

    Then you have a very big reach but I know this market exists...the real estate investor. I know a handful of people who all purchased condos near Petco Park in San Diego because they were huge baseball fans and season ticket holders but did not like the drive home after the game. Could a Bills stadium next door to FNC be enough for the high end in WNY to justify a condo/apartment in the city? Possibly?
    What about the bar and restaurant owners in OP? Wouldn't they lose business? If i had seasons tickets to both the Bills and the Sabres I'd prefer a different venue for both to add some variety.


    Yes, a new stadium in a new location would probably increase associated development, but it would also un-develop existing business in and around the existing stadium.

    The only real benefit I see from moving the stadium would be replacing some urban blight that otherwise would not get developed. Lots of cities have used new stadiums just for that purpose.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by nogods View Post
    What about the bar and restaurant owners in OP? Wouldn't they lose business? If i had seasons tickets to both the Bills and the Sabres I'd prefer a different venue for both to add some variety.
    I am sure they would. But that is business. If the stadium being near their business is the only thing keeping them open, they need to consider that and deal with it on their own.

    It really comes down to who pays for the stadium. They are the only people who should have a say.

    If the Town of Orchard Park wants to keep that revenue, they need to step up with financing. If Erie County is going to come up with funding, the location that offers the most return for them should be the leader. If the owner is contributing money, Mr. Pegula should also have a say. A voice can be purchased.

    Quote Originally Posted by nogods View Post
    Yes, a new stadium in a new location would probably increase associated development, but it would also un-develop existing business in and around the existing stadium.

    The only real benefit I see from moving the stadium would be replacing some urban blight that otherwise would not get developed. Lots of cities have used new stadiums just for that purpose.
    Again, if OP is worried about not having the Bills game, they need to consider their options and make an offer.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by leftWNYbecauseofBS View Post
    I am sure they would. But that is business. If the stadium being near their business is the only thing keeping them open, they need to consider that and deal with it on their own.

    It really comes down to who pays for the stadium. They are the only people who should have a say.

    If the Town of Orchard Park wants to keep that revenue, they need to step up with financing. If Erie County is going to come up with funding, the location that offers the most return for them should be the leader. If the owner is contributing money, Mr. Pegula should also have a say. A voice can be purchased.



    Again, if OP is worried about not having the Bills game, they need to consider their options and make an offer.
    Last I looked , OP is in Erie County. How would the county benefit more from a downtown on land the county does not own vs in OP on land the county does control?

    If building a new stadium downtown is the only thing that will keep some bars and restaurants open then they have to deal with it on their own. Moving a stadium for their benefit is no different than leaving it where it is for the benefit of the OP bars.

    If the owner is paying for the entire stadium he can put it where he wants. If taxpayers are paying for any of it then it goes where the taxpayers want it. He can buy his way out of that problem by not asking for public funds.

    I think Pegula sells the Bills in the lease option year to cash in on his investment. He might even use the failure to build a taxpayer funded stadium as an excuse, but I think his real motive for selling the Bills will be money. In the lease option year the Bills are worth a lot more to someone who wants to move them to a big city market. Pegula (or his estate) will be hard pressed to refuse the offer.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by 300miles View Post
    There's one benefit I can think of from condensing sports complexes into one area, and that would be to share parking, otherwise not much.
    If the new stadium includes a convention center, then there could be additional benefits.
    Personally I would love to see the old convention center torn down and the street grid re-opened, but a new stadium+conv.center would likely need to shut down streets too.

    Putting a stadium downtown would need to be carefully located and planned. Otherwise it will do much more damage than benefit. Some serious thought needs to go into it. I'm not saying it's a bad idea, but if it's going to be executed poorly then I'd rather just keep it in Orchard Park.
    There are absolutely NO benefits to a new convention center anywhere but especially a football stadium/convention center in Buffalo. The number of conventions and convention attendees has remained static or declined over the last twenty years while the number of convention centers has soared. The result is that convention centers are huge white elephants even in cities that are prime convention sites, and Buffalo is NOT one of those.

    A shared football stadium and convention center would preclude holding conventions from August through December at least since most conventions either begin on Sundays or have set up on Sundays. People from around the country are NOT coming to Buffalo for conventions from January/February through April, so that leaves about three months for conventions.
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  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by WNYresident View Post
    By combining all three you are giving businesses around that area a steadier stream of clients.

    Putting the convention center where they did seems like a bad idea. How did that area get picked?
    The Bisons and the Sabres have played about 40-50 homes games every season for decades, and there's been very limited economic development resulting from their presence all that time, mostly a few bars and restaurants. It's NOT like people who go to sporting events -- or other entertainment events -- regularly stop to shop or bank or drop off dry cleaning on their way to or from the events. It's NOT like there's a lot of full time personnel attached to stadiums, either, and even if there were, what makes anybody think that they would live right near the stadium, especially if it was located downtown where there's two kinds of housing located nearby: expensive luxury apartments and slummy ratholes.

    IMO, most of the consultants that tout the "economic development potential" of stadiums have actually never attended an NFL game.
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  12. #42
    Member leftWNYbecauseofBS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linda_D View Post
    There are absolutely NO benefits to a new convention center anywhere but especially a football stadium/convention center in Buffalo. The number of conventions and convention attendees has remained static or declined over the last twenty years while the number of convention centers has soared. The result is that convention centers are huge white elephants even in cities that are prime convention sites, and Buffalo is NOT one of those.
    Speaking in absolutes is foolish.

    If you are trying to say there is absolutely NO return on investment for a publicly funded convention center...then you might have something. However, those are not the only options that exist.

    But what if there was a privately funded convention center? Say a joint partnership between Delaware North, Seneca Buffalo Creek and Pegula Sports and Entertainment. If the cobblestone site is selected, it would be right in the middle of the HarborCenter and the Casino. It's not that much of a reach to see a convention center between the two.

    Seneca Buffalo Creek gets revenue from patrons and conventions do bring people. As for the competition that you mentioned, how many of the smaller convention centers have a casino within walking distance? Pegula Sports & Entertainment has already said it's going to shoot for as many events as possible but HarborCenter only provides a specific type of venue space. How would the bidding for future events be improved if there was meeting space attached to the bid? DNC has a resort branch and it's not a reach to suggest they could manage a convention center complex.

    As for the weather, HarborCenter is already connected to FNC via a skybridge. A similar skybridge could connect to the convention center and then to the casino and a possible hotel on the casino site. This would then make these two hotels the primary hotels for events year round.

    Now would the numbers work? Who knows but it's not that far of a reach to suggest that they could.

    Quote Originally Posted by Linda_D View Post
    A shared football stadium and convention center would preclude holding conventions from August through December at least since most conventions either begin on Sundays or have set up on Sundays. People from around the country are NOT coming to Buffalo for conventions from January/February through April, so that leaves about three months for conventions.
    It would preclude conventions that run through Sunday for 8 weekends a year....possibly. As for your assertion that most conventions either begin or run through Sunday...care to support this claim?

    The San Diego schedule is up and they have several conventions that run through the week. In fact, from my experience in living next door to one of the busiest convention centers in the US and attending many trade shows for work, many are held during the week. This is done to increase attendance as business folks prefer to attend conferences during the week, as well as, to avoid weekend hotel rates where are typically higher.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by gorja View Post
    $130 million plus isn't just a drop in the bucket or the difference between dial up and wireless. After just spending that amount of taxpayer money, are people really ready to nix that stadium and spend a billion more on a new one? Not me.
    You DO understand that a new stadium isn't just going to pop up this summer, right?? That 130 million is upgrade a Stadium that has at least 5-7 more years of use
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  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by nogods View Post
    What about the bar and restaurant owners in OP? Wouldn't they lose business? If i had seasons tickets to both the Bills and the Sabres I'd prefer a different venue for both to add some variety.


    Yes, a new stadium in a new location would probably increase associated development, but it would also un-develop existing business in and around the existing stadium.

    The only real benefit I see from moving the stadium would be replacing some urban blight that otherwise would not get developed. Lots of cities have used new stadiums just for that purpose.
    How many bars/restaurants in OP make money from Bills games?? Now how many are there Downtown, maybe 10 times as many?? Sorry, your argument doesn't work here
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  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by HipKat View Post
    How many bars/restaurants in OP make money from Bills games?? Now how many are there Downtown, maybe 10 times as many?? Sorry, your argument doesn't work here
    1. It is foolish to think that a smaller stadium in downtown buffalo is going to support 10 times the number of bars and restaurants as an 80,000 seat stadium now supports in OP. Ain't gonna happen.

    2. Most of the existing bars and restaurants in that area are going to be torn down to build the stadium, so they ain't going to benefit anyway.

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