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Thread: As for eliminating the Village

  1. #31
    Member Linda_D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WNYresident View Post
    YOu need to define what rich is. When you add up pension payout and items received many people would consider those people "Rich". It's all relative to the person.
    Most elected village or town officials don't qualify for public pensions ... outside of Erie County's larger towns and their villages. That's because most of these jobs are part-time with no benies and the salaries are token amounts, probably $200-$500 a month. (Chautauqua County legislators, for example, get paid $800 a month stipends, no benes).

    Eliminating a village outside of the big towns in Erie County might eliminate the salaries of the mayor and 3-5 council persons which would total probably < $10-15k. All the other services that village residents get will still have to be provided. In most towns, those services aren't provided to town residents outside the village, so the former village will have to special districts to cover those services: sewer districts, water districts, light districts, sidewalk districts.

    The idea of "duplication of services" really doesn't exist outside of the minds of consolidationists like Kevin Gaughan: there's NOT a town building inspector and a village building inspector who both enforce building codes in the village. The town guy does the town while the village guy does the village. Consequently, if the village dissolves, there's still a need for a building inspector to take care of the village, so the town building inspector goes from half-time to full time. The same with the public works and other services. That's why there's no big tax savings when villages dissolve.

    Anybody who's ambitious might try a survey of how much the taxes in the former villages of Randolph, East Randolph, and Perrysburg declined since the villages voted to dissolve a few years ago.
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  2. #32
    Member Linda_D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NY The Vampire State View Post
    Police, fire and courts come mind first. Dog catcher, parks, brush and leaf pick up maybe...you know all that usless stuff you like to pay for.

    Basically stuff demanded by some people who force everyone to pay for their wants and needs.
    Sorry, Vampy, but paying for things that some people want that you don't think is important is the price you pay for living in society. If you don't like it, I hear the paradise that's Paraguay calling your name.
    Your right to buy a military weapon without hindrance, delay or training cannot trump Daniel Barden’s right to see his eighth birthday. -- Jim Himes

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4248 View Post
    Basically stuff demanded by some people who force everyone to pay for their wants and needs.
    Also you added, "You do NOT pay user fees for public water and public sewer" - I did not say "User fees" - you pay the cost of sewers even if you don't use them - you pay the cost of services even when you don't use them - that's the point.

    And when one has run into a government that represents developers instead of tax payers - that's paying for representation you don't receive. - That's what you fail to understand.

    When you speak in political generalities - its easy to say things like you did. Its supposed to be "equal representation" - we are all supposed to be "equally served" - but in the real world we are not. Many tax funded "services" are aimed at certain segments of the Towns residents - not all - not equally !

    Most recreational services are blocked out by favored clubs - others are blocked by age or limited access rules. But pretend its all equal - a soccer field serves the soccer moms and their kids - a baseball practice facilities is aimed at clubs, teams and such - not individual tax payers !

    That's unequal representation -
    #Dems play musical chairs + patronage and nepotism = entitlement !

  4. #34
    Member nogods's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4248 View Post
    Also you added, "You do NOT pay user fees for public water and public sewer" - I did not say "User fees" - you pay the cost of sewers even if you don't use them - you pay the cost of services even when you don't use them - that's the point.

    And when one has run into a government that represents developers/ instead of tax payers - that's paying for representation you don't receive. - That's what you fail to understand.

    When you speak in political generalities - its easy to say things like you did. Its supposed to be "equal representation" - we are all supposed to be "equally served" - but in the real world we are not. Many tax funded "services" are aimed at certain segments of the Towns residents - not all - not equally !

    Most recreational services are blocked out by favored clubs - others are blocked by age or limited access rules. But pretend its all equal - a soccer field serves the soccer moms and their kids - a baseball practice facilities is aimed at clubs, teams and such - not individual tax payers !

    That's unequal representation -
    Those soccer moms are individual taxpayers.

    Residents of a town have varied interest that are provided for through the elected government. There are lots of roads I never drive io - should they be closed and not maintained because only a small percentage of the residents use those roads?

    Everyone has just one vote. Your problem is that you are upset that a majority of voters in your town don't agree with you. What would suggest, that the town be run the way the losers in an election would have run it if they won?

  5. #35
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    I'd just as soon not live in 4248's locality if he and his kind pay for the sewers and don't use them.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by nogods View Post
    Your problem is that you are upset that a majority of voters in your town don't agree with you. What would suggest, that the town be run the way the losers in an election would have run it if they won?
    When are you going to wake up Rip Van Winkle? The way things are run is done according to what benefits the elected elite and those who are on the recieving end of the treasury. Its not about what the winning or loosing side wants its about preserving and collecting for Government Inc.

    Simple Example: Don't you think 95% of New Yorkers would like to see fuel taxes in line with the rest of the country? Why doesn't this happen?
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  7. #37
    Member nogods's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NY The Vampire State View Post
    When are you going to wake up Rip Van Winkle? The way things are run is done according to what benefits the elected elite and those who are on the recieving end of the treasury. Its not about what the winning or loosing side wants its about preserving and collecting for Government Inc.

    Simple Example: Don't you think 95% of New Yorkers would like to see fuel taxes in line with the rest of the country? Why doesn't this happen?
    Nope. The majority of New York voters prefer raising revenue through fuel taxes rather than some other method or foregoing the revenue source and causing elimination of a government functions. When they change their mind, they'll vote for a candidate who promises to eliminate that revenue source.

    For most New York voters taxation is not the problem, - waste and fraud in spending is the problem. For example, if we could eliminate the waste and fraud in spending for state praks and recreation, we could have more and better parks and recreational lands, and better managed natural resources. The majority of New Yorkers are willing to pay for those assets through taxation.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by nogods View Post
    Nope. The majority of New York voters prefer raising revenue through fuel taxes rather than some other method or foregoing the revenue source and causing elimination of a government functions. When they change their mind, they'll vote for a candidate who promises to eliminate that revenue source.

    For most New York voters taxation is not the problem, - waste and fraud in spending is the problem. For example, if we could eliminate the waste and fraud in spending for state praks and recreation, we could have more and better parks and recreational lands, and better managed natural resources. The majority of New Yorkers are willing to pay for those assets through taxation.

    Wow... What planet are you from? Where do you get this information?

    People that work for their money don't want it taken away from them. The only people who would conceivably want higher taxes are those who contribute nothing and are on the recieving line. So are you saying that the Democrat party has created enough of these people for that to be the case?

    Why do both democrats and republicans campaign on lower taxes. I have never heard a candidate come out and say "I will raise your taxes to give you more". Thats campaign suicide. Even Cuomo knows taxes hurt business and the economy, why else would he create Start Up NY?
    Last edited by NY The Vampire State; October 2nd, 2014 at 04:58 AM.
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  9. #39
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    Quote Originally Posted by NY The Vampire State View Post

    Why do both democrats and republicans campaign on lower taxes. I have never heard a candidate come out and say "I will raise your taxes to give you more". Thats campaign suicide. Even Cuomo knows taxes hurt business and the economy, why else would he create Start Up NY?
    How often do the democrats and republicans that do campaign on lower taxes ever accomplish this?

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by WNYresident View Post
    How often do the democrats and republicans that do campaign on lower taxes ever accomplish this?

    They don't because they are all lairs, invested in a lifelong commitment to themselves. The point I'm trying to make is that no candidate has ever campaigned on the platform of raising or maintaining record high taxes in exchange for more/better services, which is what Nogods believes the majority of people want. It's an absurd mentality to be conned into believing.

    In his days defending the IRS I don't think he has ever sat back and realized exactly how much this government collects as a whole. It is astonishing to think about the amount of money taken from the people in the form of taxes, fees, tolls, registrations, permits, fines etc. Yes the abuse and mismanagement is outrageous but so is the amount we pay. There is a huge imbalace of money in this country, we can't afford to pay more. GOVERNMET SERVICES DO NOT PRODUCE ANYTHING! Why are other states able to maintain their roads to a MUCH higher standard with 50% of the fuel tax that NYS collects? You can apply the fuel tax example to almost every dimension of Government Inc. including the schools and the same question applies. The excuse of "well other states don't get the services like we do" is a piss poor example. First of all millions of people have fled from NYS to go to other places so it can't be that bad. Secondly, I have not heard of anyone dying in the streets in ANY of the 50 states or Puerto Rico for that matter. We have the ever widening broad brush of the Federal Government to dictate what the general welfare of CITIZENS(not illegals) should be.
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